Discussion:
The Church I so loved has lost its way; I simply HAD to leave -- Anglican bishop
(too old to reply)
Steve Hayes
2021-10-21 09:23:02 UTC
Permalink
'The Church I so loved has lost its way. I simply HAD to leave': In
his own words, former Bishop of Rochester Dr Michael Nazir-Ali
explains his dramatic defection from CofE to Catholic church

Michael Nazir-Ali, 72, was the Bishop of Rochester from 1994 until
2009

By Dr Michael Nazir-ali For The Daily Mail

Published: 22:40 BST, 17 October 2021 | Updated: 23:27 BST, 17 October
2021

Dr Michael Nazir-Ali today defends his decision to join the
Ordinariate in the Catholic Church and describes his disappointment
with the Church of England for failing to support 'core values'.

The former Bishop of Rochester, 72, who revealed the move last Friday,
said the Anglican Church had become permeated by activists who pursue
'a single-issue, often faddish agenda'.

Writing exclusively in the Daily Mail, the married father-of-two said
divisions in the Church of England had left him feeling he was 'at
odds with the Church as an institution'. Dr Nazir-Ali, who will be
ordained as a Catholic priest this month, is the third English bishop
to make the move this year.

When I was ordained an Anglican priest back in 1976, it was a moment
of joy, and hope: I looked forward to a lifetime in the service of God
in the Anglican Church which had Christ and the Bible at its centre.

The Church's values were everything I believed in: helping others to
come to faith and be formed by it, tolerance and freedom, the sanctity
of the person, of marriage and the importance of the family.
Michael Nazir-Ali (pictured), who was the Bishop of Rochester from
1994 until 2009, could be ordained as a priest as early as next month
after spending 'some years' considering the change

Back then the Church celebrated and defended those values. It wasn't
reticent, apologetic or ashamed of them.

I could never have imagined that 45 years later I would feel compelled
to leave the Anglican Church I have loved, or that I would be
received, as I was a fortnight ago, into the Ordinariate – provided
for Anglicans who wish to be part of the Catholic Church while keeping
their Anglican inheritance.

It was a bittersweet moment.

Bitter, because I am deeply saddened that the Church of England is not
the church I joined. There are many individual parishes, priests and
believers who remain committed to biblical faith and values. But as an
institution it seems to be losing its way.

Sweet, because I am excited about the opportunities that joining the
Ordinariate will bring: to uphold human rights and help millions of
suffering Christians and others round the world. The Catholic Church
is a truly united global organisation, which gives it strength.
RELATED ARTICLES

The Anglican Church has become splintered, a loose collection of
churches, many of whom have conflicting interpretations of
Christianity. Even when the Church manages to agree on things, these
decisions don't seem to carry much weight – people go off and do it
their own way.

I have wrestled with this for several years, but reluctantly realised
that I have no choice.

Too often I have felt alone, at odds with the Church. Sometimes it is
better to have the wind at your back rather than constantly battle
against it.

It is a deeply personal decision. I am moving from one Church to
another, in a fulfilment of my spiritual needs. It is not a
'conversion' from one religion to another.
Dr Nazir-Ali with the Queen at Wolferton Church on the Sandringham
estate in Norfolk in 1998

Dr Nazir-Ali with the Queen at Wolferton Church on the Sandringham
estate in Norfolk in 1998
The married father-of-two revealed The Archbishop of Canterbury,
Justin Welby, did not try to convince him to stay. He added: 'I think
he respected the decision that I had made and I was grateful for
that.' Pictured, Dr Nazir-Ali with Prince Philip in 2002

The married father-of-two revealed The Archbishop of Canterbury,
Justin Welby, did not try to convince him to stay. He added: 'I think
he respected the decision that I had made and I was grateful for
that.' Pictured, Dr Nazir-Ali with Prince Philip in 2002

Now, as a member of the Ordinariate, I have entered into full
communion with the Catholic Church while retaining what I love about
Anglicanism: the beauty of worship, love of the Bible and a pastoral
commitment to the wider community. And the Ordinariate accepts married
clergy – I've been happily married to Valerie for nearly 50 years.

The Catholic Church has had its share of problems, but the faith and
values are those that I also hold and which I feel are being eroded in
the Church of England. It might have been easier at the age of 72 to
have remained where I was: to work from the inside to change the
things that I feel so strongly about.

Believe me, I have tried – but failed. The Church councils and synods
are permeated by activists who each have a single-issue, often faddish
agenda, whether it is about cultural correctness, 'climate change',
identity politics, multi-culturalism (which actually encourages
communities to live separately) or critical theory on race, religion
and gender – a neo-Marxist theory developed to create conflict by
dividing people into victims and villains.
Dr Nazir-Ali has been married to Valerie (pictured) since 1972 and
they have two adult sons

Emphasising people's differences, rather than what unites them,
isolates and separates people and causes the kind of distrust and
'ghettoisation' that I believe led, in part, to my friend Sir David
Amess MP losing his life.

And then there is the endless self-lacerating about Britain's imperial
past. The latest demand, that churches review their monuments for
links to slavery and colonialism, is typical of this obsession. I'm no
defender of the British Empire. There was much that was terrible about
it: men who enriched themselves at the expense of India and what is
now Pakistan, my birthplace. But it also helped people, by improving
cities, introducing irrigation systems, modern education and the
institutions of democracy.

Yet the Church of England only seems to dwell on the worst elements of
Empire, such as the slave trade. Britain's involvement in the slave
trade was reprehensible – but let's not forget that the abolition
movement started in Britain and that the abolitionists were
Christians. Why is this so seldom acknowledged?

This apparent terror of getting on the wrong side of the prevailing
liberal orthodoxy weakens the Church. People no longer know what it
stands for when it seems to be straining to be all things to all
people.

People want a sense of the presence of God and the teaching of Christ
when they go to church, especially those who don't go often. They
don't want a happy-clappy chat show or a glorified yoga centre, where
the Bible, prayer and true worship are sidelined.
Dr Nazir-Ali (pictured in 1996) has previously accused the CofE of
'jumping onto every faddish bandwagon'

Why has the Church become so reticent about celebrating Christian
values? It is clear from history that Christian-based societies are
freer societies, in contrast to those founded on secular ideology,
such as China and the USSR.

Christian values underpin the freedoms we enjoy in this country. So we
should welcome people here on the basis that they respect those values
while being free to hold their own beliefs and contribute to wider
society.

The Church should also publicly support marriage as a permanent
institution, to which a man and a woman commit themselves for life.
This is not simply about Christian belief. All the research shows
children do better when living with married parents.

Sometimes divorce is unavoidable, and no one denies that single
parents do a heroic job, but this doesn't mean having a married father
and mother cannot be held up as the ideal.

Too often the Church appears apologetic about traditional marriage,
for fear of offending those who aren't married. We should not be
judgmental, but we should speak the truth as we see it.

Lately, the Church has become swamped by bureaucrats: assistant deans,
lawyers, civil servants, race relations and climate change officers,
while the numbers of parish clergy keep on being cut.

The Church must support the 'vicar on the beat' – who must be visible
– in church, in hospitals, schools, supermarkets, listening, caring
and leading in putting Christian faith and values into action.

Finally, the Church needs to do more to defend Christians around the
world. I have worked with persecuted Christians in countries including
Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and Syria and was closely involved in the case of
Asia Bibi, the Christian woman accused of blasphemy and sentenced to
death in Pakistan.

Dr Nazir-Ali's conversion to Catholicism is seen as the most
significant since Graham Leonard (pictured), the former Bishop of
London, who was received into the Church in 1994 after rejecting the
ordination of women priests

The Catholic Church played a major role in securing her release, as
did the wider Christian community. Fifty-five MPs signed a letter to
the prime ministers of Britain and Pakistan. But the Church of England
wasn't very vocal in its support. Why did it not show more leadership?

Hopefully, becoming an Ordinariate Catholic will enable me to support
Christians closer to home who are marginalised and hounded by a
liberal totalitarianism that demands total consensus.

I am constantly becoming involved in situations where people have lost
their jobs because of their Christian beliefs – registrars who don't
want to register marriages contrary to their conscience, midwives who
don't want to take part in abortions or nurses sacked for wearing a
crucifix.

The Church of England – and other churches – should be fighting on
behalf of all believers of all faiths who have problems of conscience.
Too often it doesn't seem to want to get involved.

Centuries ago, Church leaders were willing to die for their beliefs,
and around the world, Christians still do. By failing to stand up for
them, and for core Christian values, we are betraying them.

I sincerely hope the Church can find its way back and to rediscover
the courage to stand up for what matters. I pray it will once again
become the Church that St Augustine brought here a millennium and a
half ago, a beacon of hope, beaming its faith and values around the
world, not a flame that flickers in the wind.

Source:
<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10101671/Former-Bishop-Rochester-Dr-Michael-Nazir-Ali-explains-defection-CofE-Catholic-church.html?fbclid=IwAR3BN16qFRovJqB7R4ejADe11AyT_Q0mG8yrZNy0dT1RiWziiT4cOdaOhzU>
Robert Marshall
2021-10-21 10:16:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
The former Bishop of Rochester, 72, who revealed the move last Friday,
said the Anglican Church had become permeated by activists who pursue
'a single-issue, often faddish agenda'.
As opposed to Nazir-Ali's single issue faddish agenda which is just
fine! :(
Post by Steve Hayes
Writing exclusively in the Daily Mail, the married father-of-two said
divisions in the Church of England had left him feeling he was 'at
odds with the Church as an institution'. Dr Nazir-Ali, who will be
ordained as a Catholic priest this month, is the third English bishop
to make the move this year.
I wonder who the third bishop is - I know about Goodall - who I worked
with many years back! - but I suspect the Daily Mail can't count!
Post by Steve Hayes
The Anglican Church has become splintered, a loose collection of
churches, many of whom have conflicting interpretations of
Christianity. Even when the Church manages to agree on things, these
decisions don't seem to carry much weight – people go off and do it
their own way.
That was always so - at least from the Victorian era
and probably accounting for various splits before then!

See for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Cornelius_Gorham
Post by Steve Hayes
Believe me, I have tried – but failed. The Church councils and synods
are permeated by activists who each have a single-issue, often faddish
agenda, whether it is about cultural correctness, 'climate change',
scare quotes noted!
Post by Steve Hayes
This apparent terror of getting on the wrong side of the prevailing
liberal orthodoxy weakens the Church. People no longer know what it
stands for when it seems to be straining to be all things to all
people.
I give Nazir-Ali a plus point here for not saying 'men' :)
Good to see that he's in favour of inclusive language :) :)
Post by Steve Hayes
The Catholic Church played a major role in securing her release, as
did the wider Christian community. Fifty-five MPs signed a letter to
the prime ministers of Britain and Pakistan. But the Church of England
wasn't very vocal in its support. Why did it not show more leadership?
'her release' who is this her? Ah, Asia Bibi - the photo caption intervenes!

I see that Rowan Williams spoke out! And I see statements from the
current Archbishop of Canterbury

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/03/asia-bibi-husband-pakistan-blasphemy-acquittal-christian-plea-asylum
Post by Steve Hayes
I am constantly becoming involved in situations where people have lost
their jobs because of their Christian beliefs – registrars who don't
want to register marriages contrary to their conscience, midwives who
don't want to take part in abortions or nurses sacked for wearing a
crucifix.
Me2 - though on a rather different issue of conscience to N-A

Robert
--
"To believe in the God who justifies the ungodly is to be evangelical."
- F.F. Bruce
Robert Marshall twitter: @rajm
Steve Hayes
2021-10-23 05:28:48 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 11:16:43 +0100, Robert Marshall
Post by Robert Marshall
Post by Steve Hayes
The former Bishop of Rochester, 72, who revealed the move last Friday,
said the Anglican Church had become permeated by activists who pursue
'a single-issue, often faddish agenda'.
As opposed to Nazir-Ali's single issue faddish agenda which is just
fine! :(
Which is?
Post by Robert Marshall
Post by Steve Hayes
Writing exclusively in the Daily Mail, the married father-of-two said
divisions in the Church of England had left him feeling he was 'at
odds with the Church as an institution'. Dr Nazir-Ali, who will be
ordained as a Catholic priest this month, is the third English bishop
to make the move this year.
I wonder who the third bishop is - I know about Goodall - who I worked
with many years back! - but I suspect the Daily Mail can't count!
Was that Walter Goodall?
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Robert Marshall
2021-10-23 11:37:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 11:16:43 +0100, Robert Marshall
Post by Robert Marshall
Post by Steve Hayes
The former Bishop of Rochester, 72, who revealed the move last Friday,
said the Anglican Church had become permeated by activists who pursue
'a single-issue, often faddish agenda'.
As opposed to Nazir-Ali's single issue faddish agenda which is just
fine! :(
Which is?
Teaming with the Daily Mail in his war on woke

Keep awake, for you do not know the day or the hour. (Matt 25)!

Yes I know it can be claimed that he does other things - but so can
those he sets himself against.
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by Robert Marshall
Post by Steve Hayes
Writing exclusively in the Daily Mail, the married father-of-two said
divisions in the Church of England had left him feeling he was 'at
odds with the Church as an institution'. Dr Nazir-Ali, who will be
ordained as a Catholic priest this month, is the third English bishop
to make the move this year.
I wonder who the third bishop is - I know about Goodall - who I worked
with many years back! - but I suspect the Daily Mail can't count!
Was that Walter Goodall?
Jonathan Goodall (Ebbsfleet)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Goodall

Robert
--
Too many Christians envy the sinners their pleasure and the saints
their joy because they don't have either one - Luther
Robert Marshall twitter: @rajm
tesla sTinker
2021-10-23 19:42:12 UTC
Permalink
Remember what Jesus said.

ie quote;;;

"26 But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my
name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind,
whatsoever I shall have said to you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world
giveth, do I give unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, nor let it
be afraid. 28 You have heard that I said to you: I go away, and I come
unto you. If you loved me, you would indeed be glad, because I go to the
Father: for the Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you
before it come to pass: that when it shall come to pass, you may believe.

30 I will not now speak many things with you. For the prince of this
world cometh, and in me he hath not any thing. "

These people have not anything to do with the teachings of Jesus.
Antichrists, or, are they Him.
He said it, the prince of the world will come. Everyone should know,
it is not Jesus, or is it His way at all. Or are they in Christ!!

Wal Mart.

The prince of the world is the devil. And they are lovers of $

Only true friars are the most obedient of the Catholics. Most Catholics
today that label themselves such, are nothing of being in Him
or of Him.

John 14,2

3 And if I shall go, and prepare a place for you, I will come again,
and will take you to myself; that where I am, you also may be. 4 And
whither I go you know, and the way you know. 5 Thomas saith to him:
Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man
cometh to the Father, but by me. 7 If you had known me, you would
without doubt have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall
know him, and you have seen him. "


And this is truth, for if they do not do as Jesus said to do, and they
do not, they do not go to Heaven or to the Father, meaning , God the
Father. Jesus's Father. Almighty God. So yes, he left stipulation,
law, that you have to do as He did, or, you will not go to Him, nor can
you be in Him.
Post by Steve Hayes
'The Church I so loved has lost its way. I simply HAD to leave': In
his own words, former Bishop of Rochester Dr Michael Nazir-Ali
explains his dramatic defection from CofE to Catholic church
Michael Nazir-Ali, 72, was the Bishop of Rochester from 1994 until
2009
By Dr Michael Nazir-ali For The Daily Mail
Published: 22:40 BST, 17 October 2021 | Updated: 23:27 BST, 17 October
2021
Dr Michael Nazir-Ali today defends his decision to join the
Ordinariate in the Catholic Church and describes his disappointment
with the Church of England for failing to support 'core values'.
The former Bishop of Rochester, 72, who revealed the move last Friday,
said the Anglican Church had become permeated by activists who pursue
'a single-issue, often faddish agenda'.
Writing exclusively in the Daily Mail, the married father-of-two said
divisions in the Church of England had left him feeling he was 'at
odds with the Church as an institution'. Dr Nazir-Ali, who will be
ordained as a Catholic priest this month, is the third English bishop
to make the move this year.
When I was ordained an Anglican priest back in 1976, it was a moment
of joy, and hope: I looked forward to a lifetime in the service of God
in the Anglican Church which had Christ and the Bible at its centre.
The Church's values were everything I believed in: helping others to
come to faith and be formed by it, tolerance and freedom, the sanctity
of the person, of marriage and the importance of the family.
Michael Nazir-Ali (pictured), who was the Bishop of Rochester from
1994 until 2009, could be ordained as a priest as early as next month
after spending 'some years' considering the change
Back then the Church celebrated and defended those values. It wasn't
reticent, apologetic or ashamed of them.
I could never have imagined that 45 years later I would feel compelled
to leave the Anglican Church I have loved, or that I would be
received, as I was a fortnight ago, into the Ordinariate – provided
for Anglicans who wish to be part of the Catholic Church while keeping
their Anglican inheritance.
It was a bittersweet moment.
Bitter, because I am deeply saddened that the Church of England is not
the church I joined. There are many individual parishes, priests and
believers who remain committed to biblical faith and values. But as an
institution it seems to be losing its way.
Sweet, because I am excited about the opportunities that joining the
Ordinariate will bring: to uphold human rights and help millions of
suffering Christians and others round the world. The Catholic Church
is a truly united global organisation, which gives it strength.
RELATED ARTICLES
The Anglican Church has become splintered, a loose collection of
churches, many of whom have conflicting interpretations of
Christianity. Even when the Church manages to agree on things, these
decisions don't seem to carry much weight – people go off and do it
their own way.
I have wrestled with this for several years, but reluctantly realised
that I have no choice.
Too often I have felt alone, at odds with the Church. Sometimes it is
better to have the wind at your back rather than constantly battle
against it.
It is a deeply personal decision. I am moving from one Church to
another, in a fulfilment of my spiritual needs. It is not a
'conversion' from one religion to another.
Dr Nazir-Ali with the Queen at Wolferton Church on the Sandringham
estate in Norfolk in 1998
Dr Nazir-Ali with the Queen at Wolferton Church on the Sandringham
estate in Norfolk in 1998
The married father-of-two revealed The Archbishop of Canterbury,
Justin Welby, did not try to convince him to stay. He added: 'I think
he respected the decision that I had made and I was grateful for
that.' Pictured, Dr Nazir-Ali with Prince Philip in 2002
The married father-of-two revealed The Archbishop of Canterbury,
Justin Welby, did not try to convince him to stay. He added: 'I think
he respected the decision that I had made and I was grateful for
that.' Pictured, Dr Nazir-Ali with Prince Philip in 2002
Now, as a member of the Ordinariate, I have entered into full
communion with the Catholic Church while retaining what I love about
Anglicanism: the beauty of worship, love of the Bible and a pastoral
commitment to the wider community. And the Ordinariate accepts married
clergy – I've been happily married to Valerie for nearly 50 years.
The Catholic Church has had its share of problems, but the faith and
values are those that I also hold and which I feel are being eroded in
the Church of England. It might have been easier at the age of 72 to
have remained where I was: to work from the inside to change the
things that I feel so strongly about.
Believe me, I have tried – but failed. The Church councils and synods
are permeated by activists who each have a single-issue, often faddish
agenda, whether it is about cultural correctness, 'climate change',
identity politics, multi-culturalism (which actually encourages
communities to live separately) or critical theory on race, religion
and gender – a neo-Marxist theory developed to create conflict by
dividing people into victims and villains.
Dr Nazir-Ali has been married to Valerie (pictured) since 1972 and
they have two adult sons
Emphasising people's differences, rather than what unites them,
isolates and separates people and causes the kind of distrust and
'ghettoisation' that I believe led, in part, to my friend Sir David
Amess MP losing his life.
And then there is the endless self-lacerating about Britain's imperial
past. The latest demand, that churches review their monuments for
links to slavery and colonialism, is typical of this obsession. I'm no
defender of the British Empire. There was much that was terrible about
it: men who enriched themselves at the expense of India and what is
now Pakistan, my birthplace. But it also helped people, by improving
cities, introducing irrigation systems, modern education and the
institutions of democracy.
Yet the Church of England only seems to dwell on the worst elements of
Empire, such as the slave trade. Britain's involvement in the slave
trade was reprehensible – but let's not forget that the abolition
movement started in Britain and that the abolitionists were
Christians. Why is this so seldom acknowledged?
This apparent terror of getting on the wrong side of the prevailing
liberal orthodoxy weakens the Church. People no longer know what it
stands for when it seems to be straining to be all things to all
people.
People want a sense of the presence of God and the teaching of Christ
when they go to church, especially those who don't go often. They
don't want a happy-clappy chat show or a glorified yoga centre, where
the Bible, prayer and true worship are sidelined.
Dr Nazir-Ali (pictured in 1996) has previously accused the CofE of
'jumping onto every faddish bandwagon'
Why has the Church become so reticent about celebrating Christian
values? It is clear from history that Christian-based societies are
freer societies, in contrast to those founded on secular ideology,
such as China and the USSR.
Christian values underpin the freedoms we enjoy in this country. So we
should welcome people here on the basis that they respect those values
while being free to hold their own beliefs and contribute to wider
society.
The Church should also publicly support marriage as a permanent
institution, to which a man and a woman commit themselves for life.
This is not simply about Christian belief. All the research shows
children do better when living with married parents.
Sometimes divorce is unavoidable, and no one denies that single
parents do a heroic job, but this doesn't mean having a married father
and mother cannot be held up as the ideal.
Too often the Church appears apologetic about traditional marriage,
for fear of offending those who aren't married. We should not be
judgmental, but we should speak the truth as we see it.
Lately, the Church has become swamped by bureaucrats: assistant deans,
lawyers, civil servants, race relations and climate change officers,
while the numbers of parish clergy keep on being cut.
The Church must support the 'vicar on the beat' – who must be visible
– in church, in hospitals, schools, supermarkets, listening, caring
and leading in putting Christian faith and values into action.
Finally, the Church needs to do more to defend Christians around the
world. I have worked with persecuted Christians in countries including
Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: england.religion.christian,alt.religion.christianity,alt.christian.religion,alt.religion.christian.episcopal,alt.christnet.religion,alt.christnet.theology
Subject: Re: The Church I so loved has lost its way; I simply HAD to leave -- Anglican bishop
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 11:16:43 +0100
Organization: The first against the wall
Lines: 72
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="d42f5ccd4db771927a11fdd17c0b2be0";
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:IcoUdZLpO0XFKqXf689IcRr1evE=
sha1:mPddH5E81Hp3wJXrfn4URxx5H7U=
X-Home-Page: http://rmstar.blogspot.com/
Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org england.religion.christian:27251 alt.religion.christianity:74684 alt.christian.religion:83075 alt.religion.christian.episcopal:49881 alt.christnet.religion:6782 alt.christnet.theology:132165
Post by Steve Hayes
The former Bishop of Rochester, 72, who revealed the move last Friday,
said the Anglican Church had become permeated by activists who pursue
'a single-issue, often faddish agenda'.
As opposed to Nazir-Ali's single issue faddish agenda which is just
fine! :(
Post by Steve Hayes
Writing exclusively in the Daily Mail, the married father-of-two said
divisions in the Church of England had left him feeling he was 'at
odds with the Church as an institution'. Dr Nazir-Ali, who will be
ordained as a Catholic priest this month, is the third English bishop
to make the move this year.
I wonder who the third bishop is - I know about Goodall - who I worked
with many years back! - but I suspect the Daily Mail can't count!
Post by Steve Hayes
The Anglican Church has become splintered, a loose collection of
churches, many of whom have conflicting interpretations of
Christianity. Even when the Church manages to agree on things, these
decisions don't seem to carry much weight – people go off and do it
their own way.
That was always so - at least from the Victorian era
and probably accounting for various splits before then!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Cornelius_Gorham
Post by Steve Hayes
Believe me, I have tried – but failed. The Church councils and synods
are permeated by activists who each have a single-issue, often faddish
agenda, whether it is about cultural correctness, 'climate change',
scare quotes noted!
Post by Steve Hayes
This apparent terror of getting on the wrong side of the prevailing
liberal orthodoxy weakens the Church. People no longer know what it
stands for when it seems to be straining to be all things to all
people.
I give Nazir-Ali a plus point here for not saying 'men' :)
Good to see that he's in favour of inclusive language :) :)
Post by Steve Hayes
The Catholic Church played a major role in securing her release, as
did the wider Christian community. Fifty-five MPs signed a letter to
the prime ministers of Britain and Pakistan. But the Church of England
wasn't very vocal in its support. Why did it not show more leadership?
'her release' who is this her? Ah, Asia Bibi - the photo caption intervenes!
I see that Rowan Williams spoke out! And I see statements from the
current Archbishop of Canterbury
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/03/asia-bibi-husband-pakistan-blasphemy-acquittal-christian-plea-asylum
Post by Steve Hayes
I am constantly becoming involved in situations where people have lost
their jobs because of their Christian beliefs – registrars who don't
want to register marriages contrary to their conscience, midwives who
don't want to take part in abortions or nurses sacked for wearing a
crucifix.
Me2 - though on a rather different issue of conscience to N-A
Robert
tesla sTinker
2021-10-30 19:20:47 UTC
Permalink
https://www.desmog.com/2012/02/03/warren-buffett-exposed-oracle-omaha-and-tar-sands/

Its a fact, they have screamed corona for no good reason.
And those trains, are going to kill many people. Especially if
none of you fight them. There attitude, and it says so,
is "We can do whatever we want"

Jesus never said this.
Post by Steve Hayes
'The Church I so loved has lost its way. I simply HAD to leave': In
his own words, former Bishop of Rochester Dr Michael Nazir-Ali
explains his dramatic defection from CofE to Catholic church
Michael Nazir-Ali, 72, was the Bishop of Rochester from 1994 until
2009
By Dr Michael Nazir-ali For The Daily Mail
Published: 22:40 BST, 17 October 2021 | Updated: 23:27 BST, 17 October
2021
Dr Michael Nazir-Ali today defends his decision to join the
Ordinariate in the Catholic Church and describes his disappointment
with the Church of England for failing to support 'core values'.
The former Bishop of Rochester, 72, who revealed the move last Friday,
said the Anglican Church had become permeated by activists who pursue
'a single-issue, often faddish agenda'.
Writing exclusively in the Daily Mail, the married father-of-two said
divisions in the Church of England had left him feeling he was 'at
odds with the Church as an institution'. Dr Nazir-Ali, who will be
ordained as a Catholic priest this month, is the third English bishop
to make the move this year.
When I was ordained an Anglican priest back in 1976, it was a moment
of joy, and hope: I looked forward to a lifetime in the service of God
in the Anglican Church which had Christ and the Bible at its centre.
The Church's values were everything I believed in: helping others to
come to faith and be formed by it, tolerance and freedom, the sanctity
of the person, of marriage and the importance of the family.
Michael Nazir-Ali (pictured), who was the Bishop of Rochester from
1994 until 2009, could be ordained as a priest as early as next month
after spending 'some years' considering the change
Back then the Church celebrated and defended those values. It wasn't
reticent, apologetic or ashamed of them.
I could never have imagined that 45 years later I would feel compelled
to leave the Anglican Church I have loved, or that I would be
received, as I was a fortnight ago, into the Ordinariate – provided
for Anglicans who wish to be part of the Catholic Church while keeping
their Anglican inheritance.
It was a bittersweet moment.
Bitter, because I am deeply saddened that the Church of England is not
the church I joined. There are many individual parishes, priests and
believers who remain committed to biblical faith and values. But as an
institution it seems to be losing its way.
Sweet, because I am excited about the opportunities that joining the
Ordinariate will bring: to uphold human rights and help millions of
suffering Christians and others round the world. The Catholic Church
is a truly united global organisation, which gives it strength.
RELATED ARTICLES
The Anglican Church has become splintered, a loose collection of
churches, many of whom have conflicting interpretations of
Christianity. Even when the Church manages to agree on things, these
decisions don't seem to carry much weight – people go off and do it
their own way.
I have wrestled with this for several years, but reluctantly realised
that I have no choice.
Too often I have felt alone, at odds with the Church. Sometimes it is
better to have the wind at your back rather than constantly battle
against it.
It is a deeply personal decision. I am moving from one Church to
another, in a fulfilment of my spiritual needs. It is not a
'conversion' from one religion to another.
Dr Nazir-Ali with the Queen at Wolferton Church on the Sandringham
estate in Norfolk in 1998
Dr Nazir-Ali with the Queen at Wolferton Church on the Sandringham
estate in Norfolk in 1998
The married father-of-two revealed The Archbishop of Canterbury,
Justin Welby, did not try to convince him to stay. He added: 'I think
he respected the decision that I had made and I was grateful for
that.' Pictured, Dr Nazir-Ali with Prince Philip in 2002
The married father-of-two revealed The Archbishop of Canterbury,
Justin Welby, did not try to convince him to stay. He added: 'I think
he respected the decision that I had made and I was grateful for
that.' Pictured, Dr Nazir-Ali with Prince Philip in 2002
Now, as a member of the Ordinariate, I have entered into full
communion with the Catholic Church while retaining what I love about
Anglicanism: the beauty of worship, love of the Bible and a pastoral
commitment to the wider community. And the Ordinariate accepts married
clergy – I've been happily married to Valerie for nearly 50 years.
The Catholic Church has had its share of problems, but the faith and
values are those that I also hold and which I feel are being eroded in
the Church of England. It might have been easier at the age of 72 to
have remained where I was: to work from the inside to change the
things that I feel so strongly about.
Believe me, I have tried – but failed. The Church councils and synods
are permeated by activists who each have a single-issue, often faddish
agenda, whether it is about cultural correctness, 'climate change',
identity politics, multi-culturalism (which actually encourages
communities to live separately) or critical theory on race, religion
and gender – a neo-Marxist theory developed to create conflict by
dividing people into victims and villains.
Dr Nazir-Ali has been married to Valerie (pictured) since 1972 and
they have two adult sons
Emphasising people's differences, rather than what unites them,
isolates and separates people and causes the kind of distrust and
'ghettoisation' that I believe led, in part, to my friend Sir David
Amess MP losing his life.
And then there is the endless self-lacerating about Britain's imperial
past. The latest demand, that churches review their monuments for
links to slavery and colonialism, is typical of this obsession. I'm no
defender of the British Empire. There was much that was terrible about
it: men who enriched themselves at the expense of India and what is
now Pakistan, my birthplace. But it also helped people, by improving
cities, introducing irrigation systems, modern education and the
institutions of democracy.
Yet the Church of England only seems to dwell on the worst elements of
Empire, such as the slave trade. Britain's involvement in the slave
trade was reprehensible – but let's not forget that the abolition
movement started in Britain and that the abolitionists were
Christians. Why is this so seldom acknowledged?
This apparent terror of getting on the wrong side of the prevailing
liberal orthodoxy weakens the Church. People no longer know what it
stands for when it seems to be straining to be all things to all
people.
People want a sense of the presence of God and the teaching of Christ
when they go to church, especially those who don't go often. They
don't want a happy-clappy chat show or a glorified yoga centre, where
the Bible, prayer and true worship are sidelined.
Dr Nazir-Ali (pictured in 1996) has previously accused the CofE of
'jumping onto every faddish bandwagon'
Why has the Church become so reticent about celebrating Christian
values? It is clear from history that Christian-based societies are
freer societies, in contrast to those founded on secular ideology,
such as China and the USSR.
Christian values underpin the freedoms we enjoy in this country. So we
should welcome people here on the basis that they respect those values
while being free to hold their own beliefs and contribute to wider
society.
The Church should also publicly support marriage as a permanent
institution, to which a man and a woman commit themselves for life.
This is not simply about Christian belief. All the research shows
children do better when living with married parents.
Sometimes divorce is unavoidable, and no one denies that single
parents do a heroic job, but this doesn't mean having a married father
and mother cannot be held up as the ideal.
Too often the Church appears apologetic about traditional marriage,
for fear of offending those who aren't married. We should not be
judgmental, but we should speak the truth as we see it.
Lately, the Church has become swamped by bureaucrats: assistant deans,
lawyers, civil servants, race relations and climate change officers,
while the numbers of parish clergy keep on being cut.
The Church must support the 'vicar on the beat' – who must be visible
– in church, in hospitals, schools, supermarkets, listening, caring
and leading in putting Christian faith and values into action.
Finally, the Church needs to do more to defend Christians around the
world. I have worked with persecuted Christians in countries including
Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: england.religion.christian,alt.religion.christianity,alt.christian.religion,alt.religion.christian.episcopal,alt.christnet.religion,alt.christnet.theology
Subject: Re: The Church I so loved has lost its way; I simply HAD to leave -- Anglican bishop
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 11:16:43 +0100
Organization: The first against the wall
Lines: 72
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="d42f5ccd4db771927a11fdd17c0b2be0";
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:IcoUdZLpO0XFKqXf689IcRr1evE=
sha1:mPddH5E81Hp3wJXrfn4URxx5H7U=
X-Home-Page: http://rmstar.blogspot.com/
Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org england.religion.christian:27251 alt.religion.christianity:74684 alt.christian.religion:83075 alt.religion.christian.episcopal:49881 alt.christnet.religion:6782 alt.christnet.theology:132165
Post by Steve Hayes
The former Bishop of Rochester, 72, who revealed the move last Friday,
said the Anglican Church had become permeated by activists who pursue
'a single-issue, often faddish agenda'.
As opposed to Nazir-Ali's single issue faddish agenda which is just
fine! :(
Post by Steve Hayes
Writing exclusively in the Daily Mail, the married father-of-two said
divisions in the Church of England had left him feeling he was 'at
odds with the Church as an institution'. Dr Nazir-Ali, who will be
ordained as a Catholic priest this month, is the third English bishop
to make the move this year.
I wonder who the third bishop is - I know about Goodall - who I worked
with many years back! - but I suspect the Daily Mail can't count!
Post by Steve Hayes
The Anglican Church has become splintered, a loose collection of
churches, many of whom have conflicting interpretations of
Christianity. Even when the Church manages to agree on things, these
decisions don't seem to carry much weight – people go off and do it
their own way.
That was always so - at least from the Victorian era
and probably accounting for various splits before then!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Cornelius_Gorham
Post by Steve Hayes
Believe me, I have tried – but failed. The Church councils and synods
are permeated by activists who each have a single-issue, often faddish
agenda, whether it is about cultural correctness, 'climate change',
scare quotes noted!
Post by Steve Hayes
This apparent terror of getting on the wrong side of the prevailing
liberal orthodoxy weakens the Church. People no longer know what it
stands for when it seems to be straining to be all things to all
people.
I give Nazir-Ali a plus point here for not saying 'men' :)
Good to see that he's in favour of inclusive language :) :)
Post by Steve Hayes
The Catholic Church played a major role in securing her release, as
did the wider Christian community. Fifty-five MPs signed a letter to
the prime ministers of Britain and Pakistan. But the Church of England
wasn't very vocal in its support. Why did it not show more leadership?
'her release' who is this her? Ah, Asia Bibi - the photo caption intervenes!
I see that Rowan Williams spoke out! And I see statements from the
current Archbishop of Canterbury
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/03/asia-bibi-husband-pakistan-blasphemy-acquittal-christian-plea-asylum
Post by Steve Hayes
I am constantly becoming involved in situations where people have lost
their jobs because of their Christian beliefs – registrars who don't
want to register marriages contrary to their conscience, midwives who
don't want to take part in abortions or nurses sacked for wearing a
crucifix.
Me2 - though on a rather different issue of conscience to N-A
Robert
Loading...