Discussion:
You Will Burn in Hell!
(too old to reply)
1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
2014-01-04 08:15:52 UTC
Permalink
"Free Lunch" wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

On Thu, 2 Jan 2014 22:51:08 -0000, "1st Century Apostolic
"Free Lunch" wrote in message news: "1st Century Apostolic
"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
The Bible wants us to PROVE whatever we can. (1 Th 5:21) It has
prophecies which have been proven true. It describes things of
science
which were not understood at the time. Such as a circular (spherical)
earth floating in space. (Isa 40:22; Job 26:7)
You've been told that the earth is not floating in space, so why are
you repeating this lie?
It is attached to nothing, neither is it secured in place by anything
physically
defined.
~ Sure it is. It's called gravity.
An invisible force created by God that cannot be seen or touched.....{;o;}
Jeff...
~ It is a force that can be measured.
It still cannot be seen or even logically explained to anyone for
thousands
of years.....{;o;}
Science is complicated. It is much easier for some people to make up
stories about gods so they don't have to bother to do any work learning
about science.
Why do you allege that God created it.
No-one else has the awesome knowledge or capability!
~There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.

The evidence is all around you throughout the earth, and the heavens,
if only you opened your eyes to see it.

Take a good look in the mirror and see a created miraculously living
creature before your very eyes.

For man with all his 'intelligence' cannot
create a living organism, the secret is denied to him.

Jeff...
THE COLONEL
2014-01-04 13:57:07 UTC
Permalink
The yung cunt said.
I then took both hands and pulled her skirt down around her ankles.
Then I spread her legs and fucked her, like a hounddog fuckin'a a football.
I blew my load.
End of story.
FIONA
2014-01-05 07:18:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by THE COLONEL
The yung cunt said.
I then took both hands and pulled her skirt down around her ankles.
Then I spread her legs and fucked her, like a hounddog fuckin'a a football.
I blew my load.
End of story.
Note Quite the end of the story !!!
FIONA
2014-01-05 12:58:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by THE COLONEL
The yung cunt said.
I then took both hands and pulled her skirt down around her ankles.
Then I spread her legs and fucked her, like a hounddog fuckin'a a football.
I blew my load.
End of story.
Then the young cunt wanted to go hunt out and fuck THE COLONEL but his
penis would not rise to a second occassion, so he went and got his Mum
Fiona to get her Dildo and while he held down The Colonel she invaded
his anus and he loved it, apart from the fact his bowels were loose for
a week and he found it extremely hard to walk properly, but in the end
he figured it was well worth it.
THE COLONEL
2014-01-05 14:44:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by FIONA
Post by THE COLONEL
The yung cunt said.
I then took both hands and pulled her skirt down around her ankles.
Then I spread her legs and fucked her, like a hounddog fuckin'a a football.
I blew my load.
End of story.
Then the young cunt wanted to go hunt out and fuck THE COLONEL but his
penis would not rise to a second occassion, so he went and got his Mum
Fiona to get her Dildo and while he held down The Colonel she invaded his
anus and he loved it, apart from the fact his bowels were loose for a week
and he found it extremely hard to walk properly, but in the end he figured
it was well worth it.
The title of that short excerpt, folks, is Visions of a Shemale.
LOL
FIONA
2014-01-06 05:21:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by THE COLONEL
Post by FIONA
Post by THE COLONEL
The yung cunt said.
I then took both hands and pulled her skirt down around her ankles.
Then I spread her legs and fucked her, like a hounddog fuckin'a a football.
I blew my load.
End of story.
Then the young cunt wanted to go hunt out and fuck THE COLONEL but his
penis would not rise to a second occassion, so he went and got his Mum
Fiona to get her Dildo and while he held down The Colonel she invaded
his anus and he loved it, apart from the fact his bowels were loose
for a week and he found it extremely hard to walk properly, but in the
end he figured it was well worth it.
The title of that short excerpt, folks, is Visions of a Shemale.
LOL
No No No darling Colonel

I am just a normal hetro female who can recognise your secret desire to
be taught to be humble.
It is ok I do understand thisand am prepared to help you will salvation
from your predicament

FIONA
Free Lunch
2014-01-04 20:14:58 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 08:15:52 -0000, "1st Century Apostolic
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
On Thu, 2 Jan 2014 22:51:08 -0000, "1st Century Apostolic
"Free Lunch" wrote in message news: "1st Century Apostolic
"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
The Bible wants us to PROVE whatever we can. (1 Th 5:21) It has
prophecies which have been proven true. It describes things of
science
which were not understood at the time. Such as a circular (spherical)
earth floating in space. (Isa 40:22; Job 26:7)
You've been told that the earth is not floating in space, so why are
you repeating this lie?
It is attached to nothing, neither is it secured in place by anything
physically
defined.
~ Sure it is. It's called gravity.
An invisible force created by God that cannot be seen or touched.....{;o;}
Jeff...
~ It is a force that can be measured.
It still cannot be seen or even logically explained to anyone for
thousands
of years.....{;o;}
Science is complicated. It is much easier for some people to make up
stories about gods so they don't have to bother to do any work learning
about science.
Why do you allege that God created it.
No-one else has the awesome knowledge or capability!
~There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
The evidence is all around you throughout the earth, and the heavens,
if only you opened your eyes to see it.
No. You don't get to just assert that X is evidence. You need a
hypothesis and a test that shows that it is evidence.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Take a good look in the mirror and see a created miraculously living
creature before your very eyes.
There's nothing created or miraculous about people. You are making
empty, indefensible assertions.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
For man with all his 'intelligence' cannot
create a living organism, the secret is denied to him.
How do you think we get babies.
1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
2014-01-08 21:26:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe,
and science can barely scratch it's surface.

Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains
with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.

As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.

"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power
and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has
been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)

Jeff...
August Rode
2014-01-08 23:26:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe,
and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains
with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
Nice series of arguments from ignorance. Lovely. Got anything that isn't
fallacious?
Andrew
2014-01-09 08:02:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by August Rode
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
Nice series of arguments from ignorance.
Yet you are *unable* to refute them. So you don't even try.

Which is in itself *evidence* of their veracity, and that you
have been *deceived* into accepting a false worldview.
Barry OGrady
2014-01-09 09:15:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by August Rode
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
Nice series of arguments from ignorance.
Yet you are *unable* to refute them. So you don't even try.
Which is in itself *evidence* of their veracity, and that you
have been *deceived* into accepting a false worldview.
You think you know things you don't actually know.
I don't know either. But at least I know I don't know.
In that way I have an advantage over you.
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
Andrew
2014-01-09 10:17:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by Andrew
Post by August Rode
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
Nice series of arguments from ignorance.
Yet you are *unable* to refute them. So you don't even try.
Which is in itself *evidence* of their veracity, and that you
have been *deceived* into accepting a false worldview.
You think you know things you don't actually know.
No, I positively know what I know because I have solid
evidence from multiple sources.
Post by Barry OGrady
I don't know either. But at least I know I don't know.
Then get to work and do your homework and personal
research.
Post by Barry OGrady
In that way I have an advantage over you.
No, ignorance is a disadvantage.
Barry OGrady
2014-01-09 12:20:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by Andrew
Post by August Rode
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
Nice series of arguments from ignorance.
Yet you are *unable* to refute them. So you don't even try.
Which is in itself *evidence* of their veracity, and that you
have been *deceived* into accepting a false worldview.
You think you know things you don't actually know.
No, I positively know what I know because I have solid
evidence from multiple sources.
Many Christians have made that claim but none have been
able to provide any evidence.
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
I don't know either. But at least I know I don't know.
Then get to work and do your homework and personal
research.
That's normally good advice but the information is not available.

You think you know things you don't actually know.
I don't know either. But at least I know I don't know.
In that way I have an advantage over you.
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
In that way I have an advantage over you.
No, ignorance is a disadvantage.
You are ignorant of your ignorance.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
Free Lunch
2014-01-09 23:28:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by Andrew
Post by August Rode
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
Nice series of arguments from ignorance.
Yet you are *unable* to refute them. So you don't even try.
Which is in itself *evidence* of their veracity, and that you
have been *deceived* into accepting a false worldview.
You think you know things you don't actually know.
No, I positively know what I know because I have solid
evidence from multiple sources.
Then you are not talking about your religious claims any more because
you know that you have absolutely no evidence to support your religious
claims.
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
I don't know either. But at least I know I don't know.
Then get to work and do your homework and personal
research.
Post by Barry OGrady
In that way I have an advantage over you.
No, ignorance is a disadvantage.
Yet you worship your own ignorance.
August Rode
2014-01-09 13:11:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by August Rode
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
Nice series of arguments from ignorance.
Yet you are *unable* to refute them. So you don't even try.
What's to refute, Andrew? Some of his statements are true and the
remainder are his personal opinion, unsupported by any facts.
Post by Andrew
Which is in itself *evidence* of their veracity, and that you
have been *deceived* into accepting a false worldview.
When one side unilaterally declares victory before it fires the first
shot, the other side is permitted to laugh.
Ron Dean
2022-12-27 05:38:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by August Rode
Post by Andrew
Post by August Rode
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
Nice series of arguments from ignorance.
Yet you are *unable* to refute them. So you don't even try.
What's to refute, Andrew? Some of his statements are true and the
remainder are his personal opinion, unsupported by any facts.
Post by Andrew
Which is in itself *evidence* of their veracity, and that you
have been *deceived* into accepting a false worldview.
How do your know that it's not you whos been deceived? It's
impossible to determine what is deception and what is not if
only one side is studied. What have you learned from ID sources?
Post by August Rode
When one side unilaterally declares victory before it fires the first
shot, the other side is permitted to laugh.
Free Lunch
2014-01-09 23:27:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by August Rode
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
Nice series of arguments from ignorance.
Yet you are *unable* to refute them. So you don't even try.
Which is in itself *evidence* of their veracity, and that you
have been *deceived* into accepting a false worldview.
What a pile of bovine excrement you spew.
Ralph
2014-01-11 01:27:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by August Rode
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
Nice series of arguments from ignorance.
Yet you are *unable* to refute them. So you don't even try.
Which is in itself *evidence* of their veracity, and that you
have been *deceived* into accepting a false worldview.
Can you refute the claim that Pink Unicorns didn't create the universe
and that they are the gods of
the universe? Didn't think so.
Andrew
2014-01-11 02:42:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph
Post by Andrew
Post by August Rode
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
Nice series of arguments from ignorance.
Yet you are *unable* to refute them. So you don't even try.
Which is in itself *evidence* of their veracity, and that you
have been *deceived* into accepting a false worldview.
Can you refute the claim that Pink Unicorns didn't
create the universe and that they are the gods of
the universe? Didn't think so.
At least we agree that- the Universe
is the result of --> Creation.
Ralph
2014-01-09 01:29:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe,
and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains
with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power
and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has
been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Jeff...
But...but...who created this 'god'. If you say he has always existed
you'll have to show me the evidence.
Andrew
2014-01-09 08:00:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal
power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what
has been made, so that men are without excuse." Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Jeff...
But...but...who created this 'god'.
You don't know, nevertheless He is.
Barry OGrady
2014-01-09 09:14:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by Ralph
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal
power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what
has been made, so that men are without excuse." Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Jeff...
But...but...who created this 'god'.
You don't know, nevertheless He is.
The creator of God must be beyond awesome.
Such a finely tuned God can not have come about by chance.
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
Free Lunch
2014-01-09 23:29:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by Ralph
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal
power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what
has been made, so that men are without excuse." Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Jeff...
But...but...who created this 'god'.
You don't know, nevertheless He is.
Andrew worships the falsehoods he preaches.
Ralph
2014-01-11 01:26:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by Ralph
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal
power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what
has been made, so that men are without excuse." Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Jeff...
But...but...who created this 'god'.
You don't know, nevertheless He is.
From your reply, it appears you don't know 'jack' either.
Barry OGrady
2014-01-11 02:11:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph
Post by Andrew
Post by Ralph
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal
power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what
has been made, so that men are without excuse." Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Jeff...
But...but...who created this 'god'.
You don't know, nevertheless He is.
From your reply, it appears you don't know 'jack' either.
Christians don't know that they don't know things.
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
duke
2014-01-09 13:14:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe,
and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains
with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power
and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has
been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Jeff...
But...but...who created this 'god'. If you say he has always existed
you'll have to show me the evidence.
Impossible. No flesh will ever be able to do that.

duke, American-American
*****
When Obama was elected, he said he couldn't be more
proud for this country. Now, after 5 years, we Americans
will never be more disgusted with the mess he as created.
*****
Barry OGrady
2014-01-09 01:36:27 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 8 Jan 2014 21:26:28 -0000, "1st Century Apostolic
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Are you going to provide us with some of this 'plenty' you say is
all around?

We do know there is no good and powerful God.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Jeff...
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
Andrew
2014-01-09 08:03:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
"1st Century Apostolic
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Are you going to provide us with some of this 'plenty' you say is
all around?
We do know there is no good and powerful God.
We do know that He is, however it appears that
you have a question concerning His beneficence.
Barry OGrady
2014-01-09 09:12:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
"1st Century Apostolic
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Are you going to provide us with some of this 'plenty' you say is
all around?
We do know there is no good and powerful God.
We do know that He is, however it appears that
you have a question concerning His beneficence.
I have no question. I'm just pointing out the rock solid proof
of no God that is both good and almighty.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

Are you going to provide us with some of this 'plenty' you say is
all around?
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
Andrew
2014-01-09 10:00:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by Andrew
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
"1st Century Apostolic
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Are you going to provide us with some of this 'plenty' you say is
all around?
We do know there is no good and powerful God.
We do know that He is, however it appears that
you have a question concerning His beneficence.
I have no question.
Intelligent folk should question.
Post by Barry OGrady
I'm just pointing out the rock solid
proof of no God that is both good and almighty.
But you use *false reasoning* by constructing a simplistic
formula, ignoring other factors that will influence the true
outcome of the equation.
Post by Barry OGrady
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
He is both willing and able.
Post by Barry OGrady
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
But He is both willing and able.
Post by Barry OGrady
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
It is a *temporary* phenomena
in the light of all eternity.
Post by Barry OGrady
Is he neither able nor willing?
No, He is both willing and able.
Post by Barry OGrady
Then why call him God?
Because He is and His eternal
purposes of love will prevail.
Barry OGrady
2014-01-09 12:30:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by Andrew
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
"1st Century Apostolic
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Are you going to provide us with some of this 'plenty' you say is
all around?
We do know there is no good and powerful God.
We do know that He is, however it appears that
you have a question concerning His beneficence.
I have no question.
Intelligent folk should question.
You are not intelligent.
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
I'm just pointing out the rock solid
proof of no God that is both good and almighty.
But you use *false reasoning* by constructing a simplistic
formula, ignoring other factors that will influence the true
outcome of the equation.
Steve Willson made that same claim but like you he was unable
to find a loophole.
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
He is both willing and able.
Then whence cometh evil?
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
But He is both willing and able.
Then whence cometh evil?
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
It is a *temporary* phenomena
in the light of all eternity.
Then God is not both willing and able temporally.
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Is he neither able nor willing?
No, He is both willing and able.
Then whence cometh evil?
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Then why call him God?
Because He is and His eternal
purposes of love will prevail.
If God was good he would want everything to be good for us.
If God was almighty he would be able to have what he wants.
That's logic and no amount of Christian bullshit can change that.

You think you know things you don't actually know.
I don't know either. But at least I know I don't know.
In that way I have an advantage over you.
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
Free Lunch
2014-01-09 23:32:28 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 09 Jan 2014 23:30:25 +1100, Barry OGrady
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by Andrew
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
"1st Century Apostolic
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Are you going to provide us with some of this 'plenty' you say is
all around?
We do know there is no good and powerful God.
We do know that He is, however it appears that
you have a question concerning His beneficence.
I have no question.
Intelligent folk should question.
You are not intelligent.
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
I'm just pointing out the rock solid
proof of no God that is both good and almighty.
But you use *false reasoning* by constructing a simplistic
formula, ignoring other factors that will influence the true
outcome of the equation.
Steve Willson made that same claim but like you he was unable
to find a loophole.
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
He is both willing and able.
Then whence cometh evil?
Andrew is in denial about the absurd inconsistency of his indefensible
religious claims.
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
But He is both willing and able.
Then whence cometh evil?
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
It is a *temporary* phenomena
in the light of all eternity.
Then God is not both willing and able temporally.
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Is he neither able nor willing?
No, He is both willing and able.
Then whence cometh evil?
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Then why call him God?
Because He is and His eternal
purposes of love will prevail.
If God was good he would want everything to be good for us.
If God was almighty he would be able to have what he wants.
That's logic and no amount of Christian bullshit can change that.
You think you know things you don't actually know.
I don't know either. But at least I know I don't know.
In that way I have an advantage over you.
If there were a god, it would be silly for him to hide from us. A god
that actually exists would have no need for "followers" who make excuses
for his disappearance and make excuses for evil.
duke
2014-01-10 17:12:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Free Lunch
On Thu, 09 Jan 2014 23:30:25 +1100, Barry OGrady
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by Andrew
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
"1st Century Apostolic
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Are you going to provide us with some of this 'plenty' you say is
all around?
We do know there is no good and powerful God.
We do know that He is, however it appears that
you have a question concerning His beneficence.
I have no question.
Intelligent folk should question.
You are not intelligent.
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
I'm just pointing out the rock solid
proof of no God that is both good and almighty.
But you use *false reasoning* by constructing a simplistic
formula, ignoring other factors that will influence the true
outcome of the equation.
Steve Willson made that same claim but like you he was unable
to find a loophole.
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
He is both willing and able.
Then whence cometh evil?
Andrew is in denial about the absurd inconsistency of his indefensible
religious claims.
And YOU think you can challenge him? Haahaahaa.

duke, American-American
*****
When Obama was elected, he said he couldn't be more
proud for this country. Now, after 5 years, we Americans
will never be more disgusted with the mess he as created.
*****
James
2014-01-12 01:28:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Free Lunch
On Thu, 09 Jan 2014 23:30:25 +1100, Barry OGrady
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by Andrew
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
"1st Century Apostolic
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Are you going to provide us with some of this 'plenty' you say is
all around?
We do know there is no good and powerful God.
We do know that He is, however it appears that
you have a question concerning His beneficence.
I have no question.
Intelligent folk should question.
You are not intelligent.
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
I'm just pointing out the rock solid
proof of no God that is both good and almighty.
But you use *false reasoning* by constructing a simplistic
formula, ignoring other factors that will influence the true
outcome of the equation.
Steve Willson made that same claim but like you he was unable
to find a loophole.
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
He is both willing and able.
Then whence cometh evil?
Andrew is in denial about the absurd inconsistency of his indefensible
religious claims.
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
But He is both willing and able.
Then whence cometh evil?
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
It is a *temporary* phenomena
in the light of all eternity.
Then God is not both willing and able temporally.
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Is he neither able nor willing?
No, He is both willing and able.
Then whence cometh evil?
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Then why call him God?
Because He is and His eternal
purposes of love will prevail.
If God was good he would want everything to be good for us.
If God was almighty he would be able to have what he wants.
That's logic and no amount of Christian bullshit can change that.
You think you know things you don't actually know.
I don't know either. But at least I know I don't know.
In that way I have an advantage over you.
If there were a god, it would be silly for him to hide from us. A god
that actually exists would have no need for "followers" who make excuses
for his disappearance and make excuses for evil.
The creator of billions of hot lumicent suns would vaporitize a
fleshly humns. Ex 33:20,

"But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and
live."" (NIV)

Thus be glad He doesn't appear before you. You would vaporize. As for
evil, That comes from demons and humans. As for God, Jas 1:13,

"When someone is being tested, he shouldn't think that God is tempting
him to do wrong. Evil cannot tempt God and God does not tempt anyone
with evil." (Simple English)

You are so wrong about your loving Creator. Don't mix up God's right
to punish wrongdoers with evil. God NEVER PUNISHED A RIGHTEOUS HUMAN.


James
John 4:23,24
www.jw.org


As for
Barry OGrady
2014-01-12 05:41:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
If there were a god, it would be silly for him to hide from us. A god
that actually exists would have no need for "followers" who make excuses
for his disappearance and make excuses for evil.
"But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and
live."" (NIV)
Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto
his friend.
Post by James
Thus be glad He doesn't appear before you. You would vaporize.
So God can't control it's power.
Post by James
As for evil, That comes from demons and humans.
Demons and humans come from God,
-Colossians 1:16

God creates evil.
-Isaiah 45:7
Post by James
As for God, Jas 1:13,
2 Thessalonians 2:11
Post by James
"When someone is being tested, he shouldn't think that God is tempting
him to do wrong. Evil cannot tempt God and God does not tempt anyone
with evil." (Simple English)
2 Thessalonians 2:11
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they
Post by James
You are so wrong about your loving Creator. Don't mix up God's right
to punish wrongdoers with evil.
Don't mix up God's might with God's right.
God may have the might to act immorally but not the right.
Post by James
God NEVER PUNISHED A RIGHTEOUS HUMAN.
God only punishes people he created.
Colossians 1:16 - 17
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that
are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or
dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by
him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

You lose!
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
James
2014-01-12 17:07:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
If there were a god, it would be silly for him to hide from us. A god
that actually exists would have no need for "followers" who make excuses
for his disappearance and make excuses for evil.
"But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and
live."" (NIV)
Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto
his friend.
Sometimes God uses angels to directly represent him. The apostle Paul
revealed to us that is what not literaly God who transmitted those
Mosaic laws, but one of His representative angels. Acts 7:53,

"you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels
but have not obeyed it."
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Thus be glad He doesn't appear before you. You would vaporize.
So God can't control it's power.
There are things that God cannot do, such a lying. His glory is so
massive that to appear to a human would be too much for a human to
endure.
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
As for evil, That comes from demons and humans.
Demons and humans come from God,
-Colossians 1:16
Yes, God created free will creatures. The evil is theirs.
Post by Barry OGrady
God creates evil.
-Isaiah 45:7
Here are how some modern day Bibles translate that verse which can
give us a flavor of what that verse is talking about.

(NIV) "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and
create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

(RSV) "I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe,
I am the LORD, who do all these things."

(NASB) "The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing
well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these."

(NWT) "Forming light and creating darkness, making peace and
creating calamity, I, Jehovah, am doing all these things."

Since God makes "calamity" or "evil" for certain people, can the
Bible's use of that word "evil" always be considered a bad thing?
Notice a discussion on this subject from this Bible encyclopedia:

"The Meaning of Jehovah's Bringing Evil.

Rightly, Jehovah brought evil or calamity upon Adam for his
disobedience. Hence, in the Scriptures, Jehovah is referred to as the
Creator of evil or calamity. (Isa 45:7; compare KJ.) His enforcing of
the penalty for sin, namely, death, has proved to be an evil, or a
calamity, for mankind. So, then, evil is not always synonymous with
wrongdoing. Examples of evils or calamities created by Jehovah are the
Flood of Noah's day and the Ten Plagues visited upon Egypt. But these
evils were not wrongs. Rather, the rightful administration of justice
against wrongdoers was involved in both cases. However, at times
Jehovah, in his mercy, has refrained from bringing the intended
calamity or evil in execution of his righteous judgment because of the
repentance on the part of those concerned. (Jon 3:10) Additionally, in
having a warning given, Jehovah has undeservedly provided
opportunities for the practicers of bad to change their course and
thus to keep living.-Eze 33:11." (Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 1,
pp. 772,773.)

Yes, when the God of the Bible administers justice, it certainly
appears 'evil' to the one's receiving that justice, but in reality is
it is right and proper. As Moses wrote at De 32:4 concerning God,

"The Rock, perfect is his activity,
For all his ways are justice.
A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice;
Righteous and upright is he."
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
As for God, Jas 1:13,
2 Thessalonians 2:11
Actually some translations render Titus 1:2 as saying that God
"cannot" lie. (KJV, DBY, NWT) This is supported by Paul's statement at
He 6:18,

"in order that, through two unchangeable things in which it is
impossible for God to lie,..."

Then what does 2 Th 2:11,12 mean? It reads,

"So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they
may get to believing the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged
because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in
unrighteousness."

Notice the beginning words "So that is why..." This passage in showing
some action on God's part because of something said earlier. Thus we
must consider the context in order to understand this passage.

Paul is referring to a great "apostasy" (falling away from the true
religion) that was to occur. Notice verse 3,

"Let no one seduce YOU in any manner, because it will not come unless
the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the
son of destruction."

Those involved in this "apostasy" use an "operation of Satan with
every powerful work and lying signs and portents and with every
unrighteous deception". (Vs 9)

Notice who is doing the "deception". It is the members of that
apostasy.

But why would anyone listen to the teachings of that apostasy?

Apparently they like what they hear. Vs 10,

"... because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might
be saved."

These people do not love "the truth" of God's word. So God lets them
believe the lies of that deceptive apostasy, since that is what they
want anyway.
As the main verse we are discussing says,

"...because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in
unrighteousness."

Thus God is not doing anything unrighteousness, those wicked people
are. God is permitting those things to take place at this time. But
soon, God will not permit it any longer. (See Pr 2:21,22)
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
"When someone is being tested, he shouldn't think that God is tempting
him to do wrong. Evil cannot tempt God and God does not tempt anyone
with evil." (Simple English)
2 Thessalonians 2:11
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they
See above the discussion of 2 Thess 2:11
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
You are so wrong about your loving Creator. Don't mix up God's right
to punish wrongdoers with evil.
Don't mix up God's might with God's right.
God may have the might to act immorally but not the right.
God does act immorally
Immorality is defined by God. And it is humans and disobedient angels
who are immoral.
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
God NEVER PUNISHED A RIGHTEOUS HUMAN.
God only punishes people he created.
Colossians 1:16 - 17
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that
are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or
dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Thus God only punishes people who turn wicked with their free choice.



James
John 4:23,24
www.jw.org
Post by Barry OGrady
You lose!
Barry OGrady
2014-01-12 18:41:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
If there were a god, it would be silly for him to hide from us. A god
that actually exists would have no need for "followers" who make excuses
for his disappearance and make excuses for evil.
"But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and
live."" (NIV)
Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto
his friend.
Sometimes God uses angels to directly represent him. The apostle Paul
revealed to us that is what not literaly God who transmitted those
Mosaic laws, but one of His representative angels. Acts 7:53,
"you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels
but have not obeyed it."
The ones who did not obey where the smart ones who were unwilling
to be taken in by the deception.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Thus be glad He doesn't appear before you. You would vaporize.
So God can't control it's power.
There are things that God cannot do, such a lying.
Yet there are many examples where God does just that.
God hiding is one huge lie.
Post by James
His glory is so massive that to appear to a human would be too much
for a human to endure.
God must have his reasons for making humans that way.
Do you know why God made humans as just another mammal with
the same basic wants and needs and the same method of reproduction?
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
As for evil, That comes from demons and humans.
Demons and humans come from God,
-Colossians 1:16
Yes, God created free will creatures. The evil is theirs.
They are God's victims. God must be made to accept responsibility
for the thoughts and actions of his creatures.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
God creates evil.
-Isaiah 45:7
Here are how some modern day Bibles translate that verse which can
give us a flavor of what that verse is talking about.
(NIV) "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and
create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."
(RSV) "I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe,
I am the LORD, who do all these things."
(NASB) "The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing
well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these."
(NWT) "Forming light and creating darkness, making peace and
creating calamity, I, Jehovah, am doing all these things."
Since God makes "calamity" or "evil" for certain people, can the
Bible's use of that word "evil" always be considered a bad thing?
Yes, of course.
Post by James
"The Meaning of Jehovah's Bringing Evil.
Rightly, Jehovah brought evil or calamity upon Adam for his
disobedience. Hence, in the Scriptures, Jehovah is referred to as the
Creator of evil or calamity. (Isa 45:7; compare KJ.) His enforcing of
the penalty for sin, namely, death, has proved to be an evil, or a
calamity, for mankind. So, then, evil is not always synonymous with
wrongdoing. Examples of evils or calamities created by Jehovah are the
Flood of Noah's day and the Ten Plagues visited upon Egypt. But these
evils were not wrongs. Rather, the rightful administration of justice
against wrongdoers was involved in both cases. However, at times
Jehovah, in his mercy, has refrained from bringing the intended
calamity or evil in execution of his righteous judgment because of the
repentance on the part of those concerned. (Jon 3:10) Additionally, in
having a warning given, Jehovah has undeservedly provided
opportunities for the practicers of bad to change their course and
thus to keep living.-Eze 33:11." (Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 1,
pp. 772,773.)
Yes, when the God of the Bible administers justice, it certainly
appears 'evil' to the one's receiving that justice, but in reality is
it is right and proper. As Moses wrote at De 32:4 concerning God,
"The Rock, perfect is his activity,
For all his ways are justice.
A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice;
Righteous and upright is he."
Colossians 1:16 says God is responsible for all our problems.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
As for God, Jas 1:13,
2 Thessalonians 2:11
Actually some translations render Titus 1:2 as saying that God
"cannot" lie. (KJV, DBY, NWT) This is supported by Paul's statement at
He 6:18,
"in order that, through two unchangeable things in which it is
impossible for God to lie,..."
Then what does 2 Th 2:11,12 mean? It reads,
"So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they
may get to believing the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged
because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in
unrighteousness."
Notice the beginning words "So that is why..." This passage in showing
some action on God's part because of something said earlier. Thus we
must consider the context in order to understand this passage.
Paul is referring to a great "apostasy" (falling away from the true
religion) that was to occur. Notice verse 3,
"Let no one seduce YOU in any manner, because it will not come unless
the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the
son of destruction."
Those involved in this "apostasy" use an "operation of Satan with
every powerful work and lying signs and portents and with every
unrighteous deception". (Vs 9)
Notice who is doing the "deception". It is the members of that
apostasy.
But why would anyone listen to the teachings of that apostasy?
Apparently they like what they hear. Vs 10,
"... because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might
be saved."
These people do not love "the truth" of God's word. So God lets them
believe the lies of that deceptive apostasy, since that is what they
want anyway.
As the main verse we are discussing says,
"...because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in
unrighteousness."
Thus God is not doing anything unrighteousness, those wicked people
are. God is permitting those things to take place at this time. But
soon, God will not permit it any longer. (See Pr 2:21,22)
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
"When someone is being tested, he shouldn't think that God is tempting
him to do wrong. Evil cannot tempt God and God does not tempt anyone
with evil." (Simple English)
2 Thessalonians 2:11
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they
See above the discussion of 2 Thess 2:11
All those things are covered by Colossians 1:16 which says that God
is responsible for every thought and every action.
You should stop blaming God's victims for being the way God made
them.

You are no better than a muslim who blames a rape victim.

You should use your influence to organise a world wide boycott
of God. Use God's vanity against God to force God to accept
responsibility for our problems and to do something to fix
the mess he made.
Good luck with that!
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
You are so wrong about your loving Creator. Don't mix up God's right
to punish wrongdoers with evil.
Don't mix up God's might with God's right.
God may have the might to act immorally but not the right.
God does act immorally
Immorality is defined by God.
Not so.
Post by James
And it is humans and disobedient angels who are immoral.
Made that way by God so it is God that is immoral.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
God NEVER PUNISHED A RIGHTEOUS HUMAN.
God only punishes people he created.
Colossians 1:16 - 17
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that
are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or
dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Thus God only punishes people who turn wicked with their free choice.
Does your version of God have the ability to correct his errors?
Or is God too vain to admit to errors?
Post by James
James
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
James
2014-01-13 20:03:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
If there were a god, it would be silly for him to hide from us. A god
that actually exists would have no need for "followers" who make excuses
for his disappearance and make excuses for evil.
"But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and
live."" (NIV)
Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto
his friend.
Sometimes God uses angels to directly represent him. The apostle Paul
revealed to us that is what not literaly God who transmitted those
Mosaic laws, but one of His representative angels. Acts 7:53,
"you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels
but have not obeyed it."
The ones who did not obey where the smart ones who were unwilling
to be taken in by the deception.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Thus be glad He doesn't appear before you. You would vaporize.
So God can't control it's power.
There are things that God cannot do, such a lying.
Yet there are many examples where God does just that.
Name one example please.
Post by Barry OGrady
God hiding is one huge lie.
Post by James
His glory is so massive that to appear to a human would be too much
for a human to endure.
God must have his reasons for making humans that way.
Do you know why God made humans as just another mammal with
the same basic wants and needs and the same method of reproduction?
No. I don't know the mind of God. And we are not JUST another mammal.
There is Grand Canyon between an ape and a human being. The human
brain has been called the most complex thing in the universe. So other
than being flesh and blood, we are miles different from other mammals.
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
As for evil, That comes from demons and humans.
Demons and humans come from God,
-Colossians 1:16
Yes, God created free will creatures. The evil is theirs.
They are God's victims. God must be made to accept responsibility
for the thoughts and actions of his creatures.
Not with free will He isn't. All the animal kingdom is 'programmed' to
act certain ways. But not with humans, other than a special guidance
mechanism, the conscience.
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
God creates evil.
-Isaiah 45:7
Here are how some modern day Bibles translate that verse which can
give us a flavor of what that verse is talking about.
(NIV) "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and
create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."
(RSV) "I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe,
I am the LORD, who do all these things."
(NASB) "The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing
well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these."
(NWT) "Forming light and creating darkness, making peace and
creating calamity, I, Jehovah, am doing all these things."
Since God makes "calamity" or "evil" for certain people, can the
Bible's use of that word "evil" always be considered a bad thing?
Yes, of course.
Not always. Because the way the Bible uses it, God can be said to
inflict 'evil' on a person, when God let's that person use his free
will to do evil things. The permission of evil does not make God the
instigator of it. And God's 'evil' in this case can be a good thing in
that it exposes the true nature of the person.
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
"The Meaning of Jehovah's Bringing Evil.
Rightly, Jehovah brought evil or calamity upon Adam for his
disobedience. Hence, in the Scriptures, Jehovah is referred to as the
Creator of evil or calamity. (Isa 45:7; compare KJ.) His enforcing of
the penalty for sin, namely, death, has proved to be an evil, or a
calamity, for mankind. So, then, evil is not always synonymous with
wrongdoing. Examples of evils or calamities created by Jehovah are the
Flood of Noah's day and the Ten Plagues visited upon Egypt. But these
evils were not wrongs. Rather, the rightful administration of justice
against wrongdoers was involved in both cases. However, at times
Jehovah, in his mercy, has refrained from bringing the intended
calamity or evil in execution of his righteous judgment because of the
repentance on the part of those concerned. (Jon 3:10) Additionally, in
having a warning given, Jehovah has undeservedly provided
opportunities for the practicers of bad to change their course and
thus to keep living.-Eze 33:11." (Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 1,
pp. 772,773.)
Yes, when the God of the Bible administers justice, it certainly
appears 'evil' to the one's receiving that justice, but in reality is
it is right and proper. As Moses wrote at De 32:4 concerning God,
"The Rock, perfect is his activity,
For all his ways are justice.
A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice;
Righteous and upright is he."
Colossians 1:16 says God is responsible for all our problems.
Why would an atheist quote the Bible since you don't believe in it
anyway? Are you starting to believe some parts of the Bible? Col 1:16
says,

"For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or
authorities; all things were created by him and for him." (NIV)

Actually this is not talking about God, but of His first created Son,
who we now call "Jesus." And since God only creates good things, the
"all things" is not referring to evil things, but only good things.
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
As for God, Jas 1:13,
2 Thessalonians 2:11
Actually some translations render Titus 1:2 as saying that God
"cannot" lie. (KJV, DBY, NWT) This is supported by Paul's statement at
He 6:18,
"in order that, through two unchangeable things in which it is
impossible for God to lie,..."
Then what does 2 Th 2:11,12 mean? It reads,
"So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they
may get to believing the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged
because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in
unrighteousness."
Notice the beginning words "So that is why..." This passage in showing
some action on God's part because of something said earlier. Thus we
must consider the context in order to understand this passage.
Paul is referring to a great "apostasy" (falling away from the true
religion) that was to occur. Notice verse 3,
"Let no one seduce YOU in any manner, because it will not come unless
the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the
son of destruction."
Those involved in this "apostasy" use an "operation of Satan with
every powerful work and lying signs and portents and with every
unrighteous deception". (Vs 9)
Notice who is doing the "deception". It is the members of that
apostasy.
But why would anyone listen to the teachings of that apostasy?
Apparently they like what they hear. Vs 10,
"... because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might
be saved."
These people do not love "the truth" of God's word. So God lets them
believe the lies of that deceptive apostasy, since that is what they
want anyway.
As the main verse we are discussing says,
"...because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in
unrighteousness."
Thus God is not doing anything unrighteousness, those wicked people
are. God is permitting those things to take place at this time. But
soon, God will not permit it any longer. (See Pr 2:21,22)
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
"When someone is being tested, he shouldn't think that God is tempting
him to do wrong. Evil cannot tempt God and God does not tempt anyone
with evil." (Simple English)
2 Thessalonians 2:11
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they
See above the discussion of 2 Thess 2:11
All those things are covered by Colossians 1:16 which says that God
is responsible for every thought and every action.
You should stop blaming God's victims for being the way God made
them.
See above the discussion on Col 1:16.
Post by Barry OGrady
You are no better than a muslim who blames a rape victim.
You should use your influence to organise a world wide boycott
of God. Use God's vanity against God to force God to accept
responsibility for our problems and to do something to fix
the mess he made.
Good luck with that!
God will soon take care of the mess HUMANS made of things. He will
remove the evil humans. Re 11:18,

"...The time has come to destroy those who are destroying the earth."
(NJB)

It is not God who is destroying the earth, it is greedy and wicked
humans. When God acted on the earth, he created a small parcel of land
into a paradise. Then placed Adam and Eve there. So that is God's plan
to have righteous people living on a paradise earth.
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
You are so wrong about your loving Creator. Don't mix up God's right
to punish wrongdoers with evil.
Don't mix up God's might with God's right.
God may have the might to act immorally but not the right.
God does act immorally
Immorality is defined by God.
Not so.
And just who does then? Humans have a SENSE of right and wrong. It is
built into us. Murder, stealing, bullying, etc, most groups of humans
agree is evil. That is because humans have a built-in conscience. The
conscience can be corrupted, but at first it is a good test of right
and wrong.
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
And it is humans and disobedient angels who are immoral.
Made that way by God so it is God that is immoral.
You can't get further from the truth than that.
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
God NEVER PUNISHED A RIGHTEOUS HUMAN.
God only punishes people he created.
Colossians 1:16 - 17
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that
are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or
dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Thus God only punishes people who turn wicked with their free choice.
Does your version of God have the ability to correct his errors?
God doesn't make 'errors'. Humans do.
Post by Barry OGrady
Or is God too vain to admit to errors?
God cannot lie, so He can't admit to things He did not do.


James
John 4:23,24
www.jw.org
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
James
Barry OGrady
2014-01-15 04:19:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
If there were a god, it would be silly for him to hide from us. A god
that actually exists would have no need for "followers" who make excuses
for his disappearance and make excuses for evil.
"But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and
live."" (NIV)
Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto
his friend.
Sometimes God uses angels to directly represent him. The apostle Paul
revealed to us that is what not literaly God who transmitted those
Mosaic laws, but one of His representative angels. Acts 7:53,
"you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels
but have not obeyed it."
The ones who did not obey where the smart ones who were unwilling
to be taken in by the deception.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Thus be glad He doesn't appear before you. You would vaporize.
So God can't control it's power.
There are things that God cannot do, such a lying.
Yet there are many examples where God does just that.
Name one example please.
God hiding is one huge lie.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
His glory is so massive that to appear to a human would be too much
for a human to endure.
God must have his reasons for making humans that way.
Do you know why God made humans as just another mammal with
the same basic wants and needs and the same method of reproduction?
No. I don't know the mind of God. And we are not JUST another mammal.
There is Grand Canyon between an ape and a human being. The human
brain has been called the most complex thing in the universe. So other
than being flesh and blood, we are miles different from other mammals.
In the case of at least cows, mares, and human females, the genital
organ is arranged the same. In each case the organ is a slit with the
end nearest the anus being the entrance to the vagina and the other
end containing the outlet for urine.
Besides that we have the same number of limbs, same number of
ears and eyes, the same sort of brain functionality, and the same
method of reproduction. All that points to evolution since an almighty
and all-knowing creator would be expected to make his prime creation
quite separate from the animals.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
As for evil, That comes from demons and humans.
Demons and humans come from God,
-Colossians 1:16
Yes, God created free will creatures. The evil is theirs.
They are God's victims. God must be made to accept responsibility
for the thoughts and actions of his creatures.
Not with free will He isn't. All the animal kingdom is 'programmed' to
act certain ways. But not with humans, other than a special guidance
mechanism, the conscience.
Like other mammals, a human's thinking and behaviour is directly
controlled by their brain function. If God designed the human brain
then God is responsible for every thought and every action.
If God gave us free will then God is responsible for how we use
that free will. Free will is not an out for God.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
God creates evil.
-Isaiah 45:7
Here are how some modern day Bibles translate that verse which can
give us a flavor of what that verse is talking about.
(NIV) "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and
create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."
(RSV) "I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe,
I am the LORD, who do all these things."
(NASB) "The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing
well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these."
(NWT) "Forming light and creating darkness, making peace and
creating calamity, I, Jehovah, am doing all these things."
Since God makes "calamity" or "evil" for certain people, can the
Bible's use of that word "evil" always be considered a bad thing?
Yes, of course.
Not always. Because the way the Bible uses it, God can be said to
inflict 'evil' on a person, when God let's that person use his free
will to do evil things. The permission of evil does not make God the
instigator of it. And God's 'evil' in this case can be a good thing in
that it exposes the true nature of the person.
If God is almighty there can be no excuse for him to allow evil.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
"The Meaning of Jehovah's Bringing Evil.
Rightly, Jehovah brought evil or calamity upon Adam for his
disobedience. Hence, in the Scriptures, Jehovah is referred to as the
Creator of evil or calamity. (Isa 45:7; compare KJ.) His enforcing of
the penalty for sin, namely, death, has proved to be an evil, or a
calamity, for mankind. So, then, evil is not always synonymous with
wrongdoing. Examples of evils or calamities created by Jehovah are the
Flood of Noah's day and the Ten Plagues visited upon Egypt. But these
evils were not wrongs. Rather, the rightful administration of justice
against wrongdoers was involved in both cases. However, at times
Jehovah, in his mercy, has refrained from bringing the intended
calamity or evil in execution of his righteous judgment because of the
repentance on the part of those concerned. (Jon 3:10) Additionally, in
having a warning given, Jehovah has undeservedly provided
opportunities for the practicers of bad to change their course and
thus to keep living.-Eze 33:11." (Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 1,
pp. 772,773.)
Yes, when the God of the Bible administers justice, it certainly
appears 'evil' to the one's receiving that justice, but in reality is
it is right and proper. As Moses wrote at De 32:4 concerning God,
"The Rock, perfect is his activity,
For all his ways are justice.
A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice;
Righteous and upright is he."
Colossians 1:16 says God is responsible for all our problems.
Why would an atheist quote the Bible since you don't believe in it
anyway?
To piss you off by using your bible against you.
Post by James
Are you starting to believe some parts of the Bible? Col 1:16
says,
"For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or
authorities; all things were created by him and for him." (NIV)
Actually this is not talking about God, but of His first created Son,
who we now call "Jesus." And since God only creates good things, the
"all things" is not referring to evil things, but only good things.
No. I don't know the mind of God.
Yet here you apparently know the mind of God so well you can
say God only creates good things.
Colossians 1:16 says
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are
in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or
dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by
him, and for him:

That's very definite on all things meaning all things.
The bible describes many evil and corrupt things God does and
allows, and you are critical of many aspects of God's creation.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
All those things are covered by Colossians 1:16 which says that God
is responsible for every thought and every action.
You should stop blaming God's victims for being the way God made
them.
You are no better than a muslim who blames a rape victim.
You should use your influence to organise a world wide boycott
of God. Use God's vanity against God to force God to accept
responsibility for our problems and to do something to fix
the mess he made.
Good luck with that!
God will soon take care of the mess HUMANS made of things.
The least God should have done was to provide a warranty
and regular updates.
Post by James
He will remove the evil humans. Re 11:18,
God tried that with the world wide flood AND FAILED.
Post by James
"...The time has come to destroy those who are destroying the earth."
(NJB)
Why doesn't God use his magical powers to amend his design?
We all deserve the very best God can give us.
Post by James
It is not God who is destroying the earth, it is greedy and wicked
humans.
Genesis says God trashed every good thing with no excuse.
Post by James
When God acted on the earth, he created a small parcel of land
into a paradise. Then placed Adam and Eve there. So that is God's plan
to have righteous people living on a paradise earth.
You know what would have been so much better?
If God had not had a hissy fit and trashed everything good.
I would say God's act of creating a paradise he never intended us to
have was an act of pure evil.
You say you don't know the mind of God. In Genesis we get an insight
into the mind of God and its not pretty.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
You are so wrong about your loving Creator. Don't mix up God's right
to punish wrongdoers with evil.
Don't mix up God's might with God's right.
God may have the might to act immorally but not the right.
God does act immorally
Immorality is defined by God.
Not so.
And just who does then?
We must do the best we can.
Post by James
Humans have a SENSE of right and wrong. It is
built into us. Murder, stealing, bullying, etc, most groups of humans
agree is evil. That is because humans have a built-in conscience.
Do you agree with God that genocide is a useful tool?
Should homosexuals be killed as is done in Iran or should homosexuals
be given the same rights as normal people? Why would God design
mammal brains such that some are homosexual and then call for the
death of those? Wouldn't it make more sense for God to have created
us the way he wants us to be?
Post by James
The conscience can be corrupted, but at first it is a good test of right
and wrong.
Who do you say designed our brain?
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
And it is humans and disobedient angels who are immoral.
Made that way by God so it is God that is immoral.
You can't get further from the truth than that.
We didn't design our own brains so if not God who did design
our brains?
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
God NEVER PUNISHED A RIGHTEOUS HUMAN.
God only punishes people he created.
Colossians 1:16 - 17
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that
are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or
dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Thus God only punishes people who turn wicked with their free choice.
Does your version of God have the ability to correct his errors?
God doesn't make 'errors'. Humans do.
So God intended us to make errors? That is so evil.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Or is God too vain to admit to errors?
God cannot lie, so He can't admit to things He did not do.
No. I don't know the mind of God.
yet now you seem to know the mind of God in such detail
you can say God does not lie.
You say that in the face of much evidence that God constantly
lies.

I know it is in your interest to promote God by denying evolution
but the fact is that everything points to evolution having happened
over millions of years and many Christians accept evolution without
losing faith in God.
Post by James
James
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
Barry OGrady
2014-01-17 23:50:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
If there were a god, it would be silly for him to hide from us. A god
that actually exists would have no need for "followers" who make excuses
for his disappearance and make excuses for evil.
"But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and
live."" (NIV)
Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto
his friend.
Sometimes God uses angels to directly represent him. The apostle Paul
revealed to us that is what not literaly God who transmitted those
Mosaic laws, but one of His representative angels. Acts 7:53,
"you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels
but have not obeyed it."
The ones who did not obey where the smart ones who were unwilling
to be taken in by the deception.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Thus be glad He doesn't appear before you. You would vaporize.
So God can't control it's power.
There are things that God cannot do, such a lying.
Yet there are many examples where God does just that.
Name one example please.
God hiding is one huge lie.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
His glory is so massive that to appear to a human would be too much
for a human to endure.
God must have his reasons for making humans that way.
Do you know why God made humans as just another mammal with
the same basic wants and needs and the same method of reproduction?
No. I don't know the mind of God. And we are not JUST another mammal.
There is Grand Canyon between an ape and a human being. The human
brain has been called the most complex thing in the universe. So other
than being flesh and blood, we are miles different from other mammals.
In the case of at least cows, mares, and human females, the genital
organ is arranged the same. In each case the organ is a slit with the
end nearest the anus being the entrance to the vagina and the other
end containing the outlet for urine.
Besides that we have the same number of limbs, same number of
ears and eyes, the same sort of brain functionality, and the same
method of reproduction. All that points to evolution since an almighty
and all-knowing creator would be expected to make his prime creation
quite separate from the animals.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
As for evil, That comes from demons and humans.
Demons and humans come from God,
-Colossians 1:16
Yes, God created free will creatures. The evil is theirs.
They are God's victims. God must be made to accept responsibility
for the thoughts and actions of his creatures.
Not with free will He isn't. All the animal kingdom is 'programmed' to
act certain ways. But not with humans, other than a special guidance
mechanism, the conscience.
Like other mammals, a human's thinking and behaviour is directly
controlled by their brain function. If God designed the human brain
then God is responsible for every thought and every action.
If God gave us free will then God is responsible for how we use
that free will. Free will is not an out for God.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
God creates evil.
-Isaiah 45:7
Here are how some modern day Bibles translate that verse which can
give us a flavor of what that verse is talking about.
(NIV) "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and
create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."
(RSV) "I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe,
I am the LORD, who do all these things."
(NASB) "The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing
well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these."
(NWT) "Forming light and creating darkness, making peace and
creating calamity, I, Jehovah, am doing all these things."
Since God makes "calamity" or "evil" for certain people, can the
Bible's use of that word "evil" always be considered a bad thing?
Yes, of course.
Not always. Because the way the Bible uses it, God can be said to
inflict 'evil' on a person, when God let's that person use his free
will to do evil things. The permission of evil does not make God the
instigator of it. And God's 'evil' in this case can be a good thing in
that it exposes the true nature of the person.
If God is almighty there can be no excuse for him to allow evil.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
"The Meaning of Jehovah's Bringing Evil.
Rightly, Jehovah brought evil or calamity upon Adam for his
disobedience. Hence, in the Scriptures, Jehovah is referred to as the
Creator of evil or calamity. (Isa 45:7; compare KJ.) His enforcing of
the penalty for sin, namely, death, has proved to be an evil, or a
calamity, for mankind. So, then, evil is not always synonymous with
wrongdoing. Examples of evils or calamities created by Jehovah are the
Flood of Noah's day and the Ten Plagues visited upon Egypt. But these
evils were not wrongs. Rather, the rightful administration of justice
against wrongdoers was involved in both cases. However, at times
Jehovah, in his mercy, has refrained from bringing the intended
calamity or evil in execution of his righteous judgment because of the
repentance on the part of those concerned. (Jon 3:10) Additionally, in
having a warning given, Jehovah has undeservedly provided
opportunities for the practicers of bad to change their course and
thus to keep living.-Eze 33:11." (Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 1,
pp. 772,773.)
Yes, when the God of the Bible administers justice, it certainly
appears 'evil' to the one's receiving that justice, but in reality is
it is right and proper. As Moses wrote at De 32:4 concerning God,
"The Rock, perfect is his activity,
For all his ways are justice.
A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice;
Righteous and upright is he."
Colossians 1:16 says God is responsible for all our problems.
Why would an atheist quote the Bible since you don't believe in it
anyway?
To piss you off by using your bible against you.
Post by James
Are you starting to believe some parts of the Bible? Col 1:16
says,
"For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or
authorities; all things were created by him and for him." (NIV)
Actually this is not talking about God, but of His first created Son,
who we now call "Jesus." And since God only creates good things, the
"all things" is not referring to evil things, but only good things.
No. I don't know the mind of God.
Yet here you apparently know the mind of God so well you can
say God only creates good things.
Colossians 1:16 says
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are
in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or
dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by
him, and for him:

That's very definite on all things meaning all things.
The bible describes many evil and corrupt things God does and
allows, and you are critical of many aspects of God's creation.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
All those things are covered by Colossians 1:16 which says that God
is responsible for every thought and every action.
You should stop blaming God's victims for being the way God made
them.
You are no better than a muslim who blames a rape victim.
You should use your influence to organise a world wide boycott
of God. Use God's vanity against God to force God to accept
responsibility for our problems and to do something to fix
the mess he made.
Good luck with that!
God will soon take care of the mess HUMANS made of things.
The least God should have done was to provide a warranty
and regular updates.
Post by James
He will remove the evil humans. Re 11:18,
God tried that with the world wide flood AND FAILED.
Post by James
"...The time has come to destroy those who are destroying the earth."
(NJB)
Why doesn't God use his magical powers to amend his design?
We all deserve the very best God can give us.
Post by James
It is not God who is destroying the earth, it is greedy and wicked
humans.
Genesis says God trashed every good thing with no excuse.
Post by James
When God acted on the earth, he created a small parcel of land
into a paradise. Then placed Adam and Eve there. So that is God's plan
to have righteous people living on a paradise earth.
You know what would have been so much better?
If God had not had a hissy fit and trashed everything good.
I would say God's act of creating a paradise he never intended us to
have was an act of pure evil.
You say you don't know the mind of God. In Genesis we get an insight
into the mind of God and its not pretty.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
You are so wrong about your loving Creator. Don't mix up God's right
to punish wrongdoers with evil.
Don't mix up God's might with God's right.
God may have the might to act immorally but not the right.
God does act immorally
Immorality is defined by God.
Not so.
And just who does then?
We must do the best we can.
Post by James
Humans have a SENSE of right and wrong. It is
built into us. Murder, stealing, bullying, etc, most groups of humans
agree is evil. That is because humans have a built-in conscience.
Do you agree with God that genocide is a useful tool?
Should homosexuals be killed as is done in Iran or should homosexuals
be given the same rights as normal people? Why would God design
mammal brains such that some are homosexual and then call for the
death of those? Wouldn't it make more sense for God to have created
us the way he wants us to be?
Post by James
The conscience can be corrupted, but at first it is a good test of right
and wrong.
Who do you say designed our brain?
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
And it is humans and disobedient angels who are immoral.
Made that way by God so it is God that is immoral.
You can't get further from the truth than that.
We didn't design our own brains so if not God who did design
our brains?
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
God NEVER PUNISHED A RIGHTEOUS HUMAN.
God only punishes people he created.
Colossians 1:16 - 17
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that
are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or
dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Thus God only punishes people who turn wicked with their free choice.
Does your version of God have the ability to correct his errors?
God doesn't make 'errors'. Humans do.
So God intended us to make errors? That is so evil.
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Or is God too vain to admit to errors?
God cannot lie, so He can't admit to things He did not do.
No. I don't know the mind of God.
yet now you seem to know the mind of God in such detail
you can say God does not lie.
You say that in the face of much evidence that God constantly
lies.

I know it is in your interest to promote God by denying evolution
but the fact is that everything points to evolution having happened
over millions of years and many Christians accept evolution without
losing faith in God.
Post by James
James
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
2014-01-12 19:34:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by James
"But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and
live."" (NIV)
Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto
his friend.
Sometimes God uses angels to directly represent him. The apostle Paul
revealed to us that is what not literally God who transmitted those
Mosaic laws, but one of His representative angels. Acts 7:53,
"you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels
but have not obeyed it."
Yes! God does use His Angels to 'deputize' for Him, as in this passage
in one of the Daily Bible Readings of today.

"15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the
second time, 16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD,
for
because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son,
thine only son: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying
I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand
which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of
his enemies;

18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be
blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice"
Gen 22:15-18 (KJV)

HTH.

Jeff...
Ralph
2014-01-11 01:34:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by Andrew
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
"1st Century Apostolic
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Are you going to provide us with some of this 'plenty' you say is
all around?
We do know there is no good and powerful God.
We do know that He is, however it appears that
you have a question concerning His beneficence.
I have no question.
Intelligent folk should question.
We did and decided that your god is a a fraud.
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
I'm just pointing out the rock solid
proof of no God that is both good and almighty.
But you use *false reasoning* by constructing a simplistic
formula, ignoring other factors that will influence the true
outcome of the equation.
In what ways, Andrew?
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
He is both willing and able.
Mmmm....any evidence of that?
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
But He is both willing and able.
Then why doesn't he?
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
It is a *temporary* phenomena
in the light of all eternity.
Evidence????
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Is he neither able nor willing?
No, He is both willing and able.
Then why doesn't he?
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Then why call him God?
Because He is and His eternal
purposes of love will prevail.
Sorry Andrew, your proposed god falls short on all three legs of the god
triangle.
Ralph
2014-01-11 01:29:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
"1st Century Apostolic
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you descr
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Are you going to provide us with some of this 'plenty' you say is
all around?
We do know there is no good and powerful God.
We do know that He is, however it appears that
you have a question concerning His beneficence.
Aw shit Andrew, give it a rest!
Andrew
2014-01-11 02:35:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
We do know there is no good and powerful God.
We do know that He is, however it appears that
you have a question concerning His beneficence.
Aw shit Andrew, give it a rest!
Yes, Ralph..


"Our hearts are restless, until they find rest
in Thee." ~ Augustine of Hippo

Then may you like Augustine, soon find the
healing rest that we all may find in Him, and
experience release from all of anxieties that
have plagued the soul.

"Come unto Me all ye that labor and are heavy
laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke
upon you and learn of Me, for I am meek and
lowly in heart, and ye shall find rest unto your
souls." ~ Jesus

He is real.

He is the One who loves you.
Barry OGrady
2014-01-11 03:20:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by Ralph
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
We do know there is no good and powerful God.
We do know that He is, however it appears that
you have a question concerning His beneficence.
Aw shit Andrew, give it a rest!
Yes, Ralph..
"Our hearts are restless, until they find rest
in Thee." ~ Augustine of Hippo
Then may you like Augustine, soon find the
healing rest that we all may find in Him, and
experience release from all of anxieties that
have plagued the soul.
"Come unto Me all ye that labor and are heavy
laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke
upon you and learn of Me, for I am meek and
lowly in heart, and ye shall find rest unto your
souls." ~ Jesus
He is real.
He is the One who loves you.
Like a pedophile 'loves' a child.

Is there some way we can escape God's 'love'?

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
Andrew
2014-01-11 10:10:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by Andrew
Post by Ralph
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
We do know there is no good and powerful God.
We do know that He is, however it appears that
you have a question concerning His beneficence.
Aw shit Andrew, give it a rest!
Yes, Ralph..
"Our hearts are restless, until they find rest
in Thee." ~ Augustine of Hippo
Then may you like Augustine, soon find the
healing rest that we all may find in Him, and
experience release from all of anxieties that
have plagued the soul.
"Come unto Me all ye that labor and are heavy
laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke
upon you and learn of Me, for I am meek and
lowly in heart, and ye shall find rest unto your
souls." ~ Jesus
He is real.
He is the One who loves you.
Is there some way we can escape God's 'love'?
No, but you can foolishly turn away from Him
and reject it.
Post by Barry OGrady
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
There you go again reciting your foolish
mantra, the structure of which is based
upon false reasoning, by ignoring other
factors of the equation.
Barry OGrady
2014-01-11 10:26:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
Post by Andrew
Post by Ralph
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
We do know there is no good and powerful God.
We do know that He is, however it appears that
you have a question concerning His beneficence.
Aw shit Andrew, give it a rest!
Yes, Ralph..
"Our hearts are restless, until they find rest
in Thee." ~ Augustine of Hippo
Then may you like Augustine, soon find the
healing rest that we all may find in Him, and
experience release from all of anxieties that
have plagued the soul.
"Come unto Me all ye that labor and are heavy
laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke
upon you and learn of Me, for I am meek and
lowly in heart, and ye shall find rest unto your
souls." ~ Jesus
He is real.
He is the One who loves you.
Is there some way we can escape God's 'love'?
No, but you can foolishly turn away from Him
and reject it.
I hoped that by now the church had worked out a way
for us to avoid being abused by God.
Post by Andrew
Post by Barry OGrady
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
There you go again reciting your foolish
mantra, the structure of which is based
upon false reasoning, by ignoring other
factors of the equation.
I am not aware of any other factors of the equation.
Would you be so kind as to elighten me?
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
Free Lunch
2014-01-15 03:30:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph
Post by Andrew
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
"1st Century Apostolic
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you descr
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Are you going to provide us with some of this 'plenty' you say is
all around?
We do know there is no good and powerful God.
We do know that He is, however it appears that
you have a question concerning His beneficence.
Aw shit Andrew, give it a rest!
Andrew worships his own ignorance and arrogance. He will never admit
that he preaches nonsense.
Free Lunch
2014-01-09 23:27:13 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 8 Jan 2014 21:26:28 -0000, "1st Century Apostolic
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
No, no, no, no, no. You are a screaming fool. You do _not_ get to claim
that X is evidence for W just because you want it to be when there is
absolutely no identified way to tie them together. I realize that this
is a common conceit of theists, but it is false, it is dishonest, it is
foolish.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
So what? That does not show us that there are any gods.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
It's not that much of a secret. It is an incredibly complex technical
undertaking that also requires a bit more scientific understanding. What
will your excuse be when scientists show that this can be done, just as
they have shown that viruses can be assembled.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
No it is not. There is absolutely no evidence at all that any gods, let
alone the one you prattle on about, had anything to do with anything at
all in the universe.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Don't waste our time with your meaningless quotations from any
scriptures until you can show that your scriptures are trustworthy.
1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
2014-01-11 07:44:27 UTC
Permalink
"Free Lunch" wrote in message news:
"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
Post by Free Lunch
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
No, no, no, no, no.
Yes! yes! yes! yes! yes!
No-one in their right thinking logical mind would suggest that all the
heavens
and the earth and the laws that govern the Universe and the miraculous
diversity of life
just on the earth itself, came into being by unintelligent and spasmodic
mutant
configurations, better known as sheer blind chance and hopeless
uncoordinated happenings.
It just is not feasible even to a 10 year old.

Jeff...
Barry OGrady
2014-01-11 11:10:08 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 07:44:27 -0000, "1st Century Apostolic
"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
Post by Free Lunch
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
No, no, no, no, no.
Yes! yes! yes! yes! yes!
Will you be giving us some examples?

You think you know things that you do not actually know.

http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/02/08/wise/
No-one in their right thinking logical mind would suggest that all the
heavens and the earth and the laws that govern the Universe and the
miraculous diversity of life just on the earth itself, came into being
by unintelligent and spasmodic mutant configurations, better known as
sheer blind chance and hopeless uncoordinated happenings.
It just is not feasible even to a 10 year old.
No-one in their right thinking logical mind would suggest that a
magical God pre-loaded with all knowledge and power came into
being by unintelligent and spasmodic mutant configurations, better
known as sheer blind chance and hopeless uncoordinated happenings.
It just is not feasible even to a 10 year old.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Jeff...
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
August Rode
2014-01-11 16:53:03 UTC
Permalink
"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
Post by Free Lunch
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
No, no, no, no, no.
Yes! yes! yes! yes! yes!
No-one in their right thinking logical mind would suggest that all the
heavens
and the earth and the laws that govern the Universe and the miraculous
diversity of life
just on the earth itself, came into being by unintelligent and spasmodic
mutant
configurations, better known as sheer blind chance and hopeless
uncoordinated happenings.
I don't know of *anyone* who makes such a claim.
It just is not feasible even to a 10 year old.
Children have invisible friends.
Free Lunch
2014-01-15 03:35:49 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 07:44:27 -0000, "1st Century Apostolic
"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
Post by Free Lunch
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
No, no, no, no, no.
Yes! yes! yes! yes! yes!
No-one in their right thinking logical mind would suggest that all the heavens
and the earth and the laws that govern the Universe and the miraculous diversity of life
just on the earth itself, came into being by unintelligent and spasmodic mutant
configurations, better known as sheer blind chance and hopeless uncoordinated happenings.
It just is not feasible even to a 10 year old.
Jeff...
Jeff refuses to learn any science so he can preach his hopelessly silly
doctrines about his god.

How much less feasible is your god than our universe as we see it?

You invent nonsense and preach foolishness.
1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
2014-01-15 20:22:43 UTC
Permalink
"Free Lunch" wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 07:44:27 -0000, "1st Century Apostolic
"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
Post by Free Lunch
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
No, no, no, no, no.
Yes! yes! yes! yes! yes!
No-one in their right thinking logical mind would suggest that all the heavens
and the earth and the laws that govern the Universe and the miraculous diversity of life
just on the earth itself, came into being by unintelligent and spasmodic mutant
configurations, better known as sheer blind chance and hopeless
uncoordinated happenings.
It just is not feasible even to a 10 year old.
Jeff...
~Jeff refuses to learn any science

Your so-called 'science' is based on unintelligent, spasmodic mutant
configurations, [evolution] and commonly known as sheer lucky blind chance.
Although luck is as good as brains while it lasts......{;o;}

So try and remember 'Nothing can come from nothing'

Jeff...
Free Lunch
2014-01-15 23:57:35 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 15 Jan 2014 20:22:43 -0000, "1st Century Apostolic
Post by Barry OGrady
On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 07:44:27 -0000, "1st Century Apostolic
"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
Post by Free Lunch
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
No, no, no, no, no.
Yes! yes! yes! yes! yes!
No-one in their right thinking logical mind would suggest that all the heavens
and the earth and the laws that govern the Universe and the miraculous diversity of life
just on the earth itself, came into being by unintelligent and spasmodic mutant
configurations, better known as sheer blind chance and hopeless uncoordinated happenings.
It just is not feasible even to a 10 year old.
Jeff...
~Jeff refuses to learn any science
Your so-called 'science' is based on unintelligent, spasmodic mutant
configurations, [evolution] and commonly known as sheer lucky blind chance.
Although luck is as good as brains while it lasts......{;o;}
So try and remember 'Nothing can come from nothing'
Jeff...
You have no idea what you are talking about and seem to be quite proud
of your ignorant claims.
Barry OGrady
2014-01-18 06:56:55 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 07:44:27 -0000, "1st Century Apostolic
"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
Post by Free Lunch
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
No, no, no, no, no.
Yes! yes! yes! yes! yes!
Will you be giving us some examples?

You think you know things that you do not actually know.

http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/02/08/wise/
No-one in their right thinking logical mind would suggest that all the
heavens and the earth and the laws that govern the Universe and the
miraculous diversity of life just on the earth itself, came into being
by unintelligent and spasmodic mutant configurations, better known as
sheer blind chance and hopeless uncoordinated happenings.
It just is not feasible even to a 10 year old.
No-one in their right thinking logical mind would suggest that a
magical God pre-loaded with all knowledge and power came into
being by unintelligent and spasmodic mutant configurations, better
known as sheer blind chance and hopeless uncoordinated happenings.
It just is not feasible even to a 10 year old.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Jeff...
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
James
2014-01-12 21:53:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry OGrady
On Wed, 8 Jan 2014 21:26:28 -0000, "1st Century Apostolic
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
No, no, no, no, no. You are a screaming fool. You do _not_ get to claim
that X is evidence for W just because you want it to be when there is
absolutely no identified way to tie them together. I realize that this
is a common conceit of theists, but it is false, it is dishonest, it is
foolish.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
So what? That does not show us that there are any gods.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
It's not that much of a secret. It is an incredibly complex technical
undertaking that also requires a bit more scientific understanding. What
will your excuse be when scientists show that this can be done, just as
they have shown that viruses can be assembled.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
No it is not. There is absolutely no evidence at all that any gods, let
alone the one you prattle on about, had anything to do with anything at
all in the universe.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Don't waste our time with your meaningless quotations from any
scriptures until you can show that your scriptures are trustworthy.
Trustworthy huh. Alright try this.

In the past, the earth had some weird explanations. For example, the
ancient Hindu writings of the Ramayana says that it rested on the back
of a giant turtle supported by 8 elephants. When the astronauts saw
such things in space, they sure are awful quiet about it.

But let's go back some more thousands of years. This one should be
even more weird. Here it is:

"He [God] sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,..." (Isa
40:22; NIV)

The Hebrew word for circle here, "hhug", can also mean sphere. (for
example see: "A Concordance of the Hebrew and Chaldee Scriptures by B.
Davidson")

They must have been drinking or smoking something to think of the
earth as circular or spherical. How ridiculous, everyone can see it is
flat. But there is more:

The earth must be hanging upon something, like all the other lights in
the night sky. That is what Aristotle said, and we know he was no
ignorant farmer or something. But one of those scientific ignoramuses
said thousands of years earlier:

"He stretches out the north over the void, and hangs the earth upon
nothing." (Job 26:7; RSV)

How can something just float in space? Nonsense. Those astrounughts
must not be telling us another thing, a great cord attached to the
earth and hanging it. Shame on those lying astrounughts!

James
John 4:23,24
www.jw.org
August Rode
2014-01-12 22:46:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
On Wed, 8 Jan 2014 21:26:28 -0000, "1st Century Apostolic
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
No, no, no, no, no. You are a screaming fool. You do _not_ get to claim
that X is evidence for W just because you want it to be when there is
absolutely no identified way to tie them together. I realize that this
is a common conceit of theists, but it is false, it is dishonest, it is
foolish.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
So what? That does not show us that there are any gods.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
It's not that much of a secret. It is an incredibly complex technical
undertaking that also requires a bit more scientific understanding. What
will your excuse be when scientists show that this can be done, just as
they have shown that viruses can be assembled.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
No it is not. There is absolutely no evidence at all that any gods, let
alone the one you prattle on about, had anything to do with anything at
all in the universe.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Don't waste our time with your meaningless quotations from any
scriptures until you can show that your scriptures are trustworthy.
Trustworthy huh. Alright try this.
In the past, the earth had some weird explanations. For example, the
ancient Hindu writings of the Ramayana says that it rested on the back
of a giant turtle supported by 8 elephants. When the astronauts saw
such things in space, they sure are awful quiet about it.
But let's go back some more thousands of years. This one should be
"He [God] sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,..." (Isa
40:22; NIV)
The Hebrew word for circle here, "hhug", can also mean sphere. (for
example see: "A Concordance of the Hebrew and Chaldee Scriptures by B.
Davidson")
You do know that it's pretty much meaningless to say that anyone can sit
*above* a sphere, right? If you don't think so, perhaps you could
elaborate on which star God's throne might be near? Is he hanging out
somewhere near Polaris?

Hebrew cosmology described:
<http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/gre13.htm>
Post by James
They must have been drinking or smoking something to think of the
earth as circular or spherical. How ridiculous, everyone can see it is
The earth must be hanging upon something, like all the other lights in
the night sky. That is what Aristotle said, and we know he was no
ignorant farmer or something. But one of those scientific ignoramuses
"He stretches out the north over the void, and hangs the earth upon
nothing." (Job 26:7; RSV)
If you visit the link that I provided above, you'll see that the earth
hangs on nothing. It is supported from below.

What you're doing is choosing to interpret the Bible in the light of
what modern science has revealed rather than with an understanding of
what the universe was supposed to have looked like at the time the Old
Testament was written. You are engaging in confirmation bias rather than
in trying to understand what the original authors might have been trying
to say.
Post by James
How can something just float in space? Nonsense. Those astrounughts
must not be telling us another thing, a great cord attached to the
earth and hanging it. Shame on those lying astrounughts!
Astrounughts? You mean 'astronauts'? If so, that's some impressive butchery!
Barry OGrady
2014-01-13 04:11:31 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 17:46:40 -0500, August Rode <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

Theists don't make up stuff. They lack the intellect to do that.
They can only regurgitate what they are programmed with.
Try asking a theist to support their claims. They can't.
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
Barry OGrady
2014-01-13 22:31:44 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 17:46:40 -0500, August Rode <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

Theists don't make up stuff. They lack the intellect to do that.
They can only regurgitate what they are programmed with.
Try asking a theist to support their claims. They can't.
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
Silas
2014-01-15 07:29:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry OGrady
Theists don't make up stuff. They lack the intellect to do that.
They can only regurgitate what they are programmed with.
Try asking a theist to support their claims. They can't.
I always thought religion was about faith. So the best a theist can
do is to say I believe - which is not a claim. So what claims can they
make.


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
Free Lunch
2014-01-15 15:28:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Silas
Post by Barry OGrady
Theists don't make up stuff. They lack the intellect to do that.
They can only regurgitate what they are programmed with.
Try asking a theist to support their claims. They can't.
I always thought religion was about faith. So the best a theist can
do is to say I believe - which is not a claim. So what claims can they
make.
For some reason, there are believers who hate it when it is pointed out
that others do not believe because the religious teachings are totally
without evidence.
duke
2014-01-15 18:25:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Silas
Post by Barry OGrady
Theists don't make up stuff. They lack the intellect to do that.
They can only regurgitate what they are programmed with.
Try asking a theist to support their claims. They can't.
I always thought religion was about faith. So the best a theist can
do is to say I believe - which is not a claim. So what claims can they
make.
That there is a God almighty and that our time on this earth is a one of test.

duke, American-American
*****
The Obama Adminstration is a disgrace to America
and Americans. The lies, the lies, the lies.
*****
Free Lunch
2014-01-15 19:11:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by Silas
Post by Barry OGrady
Theists don't make up stuff. They lack the intellect to do that.
They can only regurgitate what they are programmed with.
Try asking a theist to support their claims. They can't.
I always thought religion was about faith. So the best a theist can
do is to say I believe - which is not a claim. So what claims can they
make.
That there is a God almighty and that our time on this earth is a one of test.
Those are things that you believe even though you know that you have
absolutely no evidence to back those beliefs up.
Barry OGrady
2014-01-14 02:09:44 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 17:46:40 -0500, August Rode <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

Theists don't make up stuff. They lack the intellect to do that.
They can only regurgitate what they are programmed with.
Try asking a theist to support their claims. They can't.
--
If you don't like what I say you can go know yourself!
p***@ntlworld.com
2014-01-13 15:57:25 UTC
Permalink
"August Rode" wrote in message news:tXEAu.275814$***@fx22.iad...

snip
Post by August Rode
You do know that it's pretty much meaningless to say that anyone can sit
*above* a sphere, right? If you don't think so, perhaps you could
elaborate on which star God's throne might be near? Is he hanging out
somewhere near Polaris?
Just a quick intercession to stop you talking bollocks but think you are
being scientific.

You said that is pretty much meaningless to say that anyone can sit above a
sphere.

That is utter nonsense.

Up, Down, Below and Above are all essentially meaningless until you one
provides some additional information but that is no more true of a sphere
than it is of a goldfish or a plate. Likewise upon, below, aside, near, far,
warm, cold, hot etc etc etc

If point a is 1m from point b then, depending on our relative position or an
arbitrary axis a could be above, below, aside, near, far from, close to, etc
etc point b.

By all means attack theism, by all means use logic and reason as your tools,
but if you intend to do it will help if you remain some distance from just
verbiage with zero content.

I'm not sure that all atheists are idiots, I haven't met them all. I'm not
sure all theists are idiots for much the same reason.

regards

Phil
James
2014-01-13 20:17:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by August Rode
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
On Wed, 8 Jan 2014 21:26:28 -0000, "1st Century Apostolic
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
No, no, no, no, no. You are a screaming fool. You do _not_ get to claim
that X is evidence for W just because you want it to be when there is
absolutely no identified way to tie them together. I realize that this
is a common conceit of theists, but it is false, it is dishonest, it is
foolish.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
So what? That does not show us that there are any gods.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
It's not that much of a secret. It is an incredibly complex technical
undertaking that also requires a bit more scientific understanding. What
will your excuse be when scientists show that this can be done, just as
they have shown that viruses can be assembled.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
No it is not. There is absolutely no evidence at all that any gods, let
alone the one you prattle on about, had anything to do with anything at
all in the universe.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Don't waste our time with your meaningless quotations from any
scriptures until you can show that your scriptures are trustworthy.
Trustworthy huh. Alright try this.
In the past, the earth had some weird explanations. For example, the
ancient Hindu writings of the Ramayana says that it rested on the back
of a giant turtle supported by 8 elephants. When the astronauts saw
such things in space, they sure are awful quiet about it.
But let's go back some more thousands of years. This one should be
"He [God] sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,..." (Isa
40:22; NIV)
The Hebrew word for circle here, "hhug", can also mean sphere. (for
example see: "A Concordance of the Hebrew and Chaldee Scriptures by B.
Davidson")
You do know that it's pretty much meaningless to say that anyone can sit
*above* a sphere, right? If you don't think so, perhaps you could
elaborate on which star God's throne might be near? Is he hanging out
somewhere near Polaris?
<http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/gre13.htm>
Post by James
They must have been drinking or smoking something to think of the
earth as circular or spherical. How ridiculous, everyone can see it is
The earth must be hanging upon something, like all the other lights in
the night sky. That is what Aristotle said, and we know he was no
ignorant farmer or something. But one of those scientific ignoramuses
"He stretches out the north over the void, and hangs the earth upon
nothing." (Job 26:7; RSV)
If you visit the link that I provided above, you'll see that the earth
hangs on nothing. It is supported from below.
What you're doing is choosing to interpret the Bible in the light of
what modern science has revealed rather than with an understanding of
what the universe was supposed to have looked like at the time the Old
Testament was written. You are engaging in confirmation bias rather than
in trying to understand what the original authors might have been trying
to say.
It is amazing when the truth stares you in the face, how some try to
make up excuses to draw away from it. Ignoring Bible truths won't make
them go away.
Post by August Rode
Post by James
How can something just float in space? Nonsense. Those astrounughts
must not be telling us another thing, a great cord attached to the
earth and hanging it. Shame on those lying astrounughts!
Astrounughts? You mean 'astronauts'? If so, that's some impressive butchery!
Yes, I am not perfect. And don't know anyone who is!


James
John 4:23,24
www.jw.org
Free Lunch
2014-01-15 03:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Barry OGrady
On Wed, 8 Jan 2014 21:26:28 -0000, "1st Century Apostolic
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
There's no evidence that your god exists or is as you describe.
There plenty all around you, if you can be bothered to open your eyes.
No, no, no, no, no. You are a screaming fool. You do _not_ get to claim
that X is evidence for W just because you want it to be when there is
absolutely no identified way to tie them together. I realize that this
is a common conceit of theists, but it is false, it is dishonest, it is
foolish.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
The human brain we are informed is the most complicated object in the
Universe, and science can barely scratch it's surface.
So what? That does not show us that there are any gods.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
Man cannot create life, or even the smallest grass-seed as the secret
remains with an Almighty Intelligent Creator.
It's not that much of a secret. It is an incredibly complex technical
undertaking that also requires a bit more scientific understanding. What
will your excuse be when scientists show that this can be done, just as
they have shown that viruses can be assembled.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
As for the heavens, that is even more awesome proof of intelligent and
intrinsic design.
No it is not. There is absolutely no evidence at all that any gods, let
alone the one you prattle on about, had anything to do with anything at
all in the universe.
Post by 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist
"20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
Don't waste our time with your meaningless quotations from any
scriptures until you can show that your scriptures are trustworthy.
Trustworthy huh. Alright try this.
In the past, the earth had some weird explanations. For example, the
ancient Hindu writings of the Ramayana says that it rested on the back
of a giant turtle supported by 8 elephants. When the astronauts saw
such things in space, they sure are awful quiet about it.
But let's go back some more thousands of years. This one should be
"He [God] sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,..." (Isa
40:22; NIV)
The Hebrew word for circle here, "hhug", can also mean sphere. (for
example see: "A Concordance of the Hebrew and Chaldee Scriptures by B.
Davidson")
They must have been drinking or smoking something to think of the
earth as circular or spherical. How ridiculous, everyone can see it is
The earth must be hanging upon something, like all the other lights in
the night sky. That is what Aristotle said, and we know he was no
ignorant farmer or something. But one of those scientific ignoramuses
"He stretches out the north over the void, and hangs the earth upon
nothing." (Job 26:7; RSV)
How can something just float in space? Nonsense. Those astrounughts
must not be telling us another thing, a great cord attached to the
earth and hanging it. Shame on those lying astrounughts!
James
John 4:23,24
www.jw.org
The Bible is full of errors.

Your attempt to twist some Bible verses while ignoring others shows the
depths of depravity that believers will sink to in order to defend their
claims about their gods.
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