Discussion:
JESUS CHRIST JUDGED THE PEOPLE OF THE OLD TESTAMENT!
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Donna Kupp
2012-05-22 12:43:47 UTC
Permalink
JESUS CHRIST JUDGED THE PEOPLE OF THE OLD TESTAMENT!

It was Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who led the people out of Egypt
and spoke the Ten Commandments on Mount Sinai. He has always been the
one mediator between the Father and mankind.

He has always been the One Ruler of Israel opposed to the many gods of
the heathen. He has always been the obedient son who speaks the
Father's words and does the will of the Father who is the Almighty
God. When men obey Jesus, the Messiah, they obey the Father who sent
Him. Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the Messiah, said:

Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all
judgment unto the Son:

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the
Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which
hath sent him.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and
believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not
come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now
is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they
that hear shall live.

Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath He given to
the Son to have life in himself;

Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also,
because he is the Son of man.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all
that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the
resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the
resurrection of damnation.

Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my
judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of
the Father which hath sent me.

THE SON'S JUDGMENT ON SODOM AND UPON GOMORRAH

24 Then the LORD3068 rained4305 upon5921 Sodom5467 and upon5921
Gomorrah6017 brimstone1614 and fire784 from4480, 854 the LORD3068 out
of4480 heaven;8064

For those who have eyes to see, Genesis 19:24 has two Jehovahs; the
Father and the Son to whom he has committed all judgment.

Who will repent and submit to His authority?

Donna Kupp

The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info
vince garcia
2012-05-22 13:59:39 UTC
Permalink
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other
gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

--Apostle paul
A thousand may pray until their knees are bloody, but if they are not
keeping His Commandments, God says their prayer is an abomination to
Him. Yet the prayers of one one man who abides in Him can change the
"The effectual fervent prayer of a RIGHTEOUS man availeth much."
James 5:16 KJV
“Little children, let no one deceive you. He who DOES RIGHT is
RIGHTEOUS.” 1 John 3:7 RSV
Sounds good, doesn't it? SOUNDS like something a believer in Christ
might really say.

But what is the truth behind what Donna Kupp teaches and believes?

How can we know if this woman is of God or actually a false teacher when
she speaks?

Paul gives us the answer:

2 cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve
through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the
simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS, whom we have not
preached, or if ye receive ANOTHER SPIRIT, which ye have not received,
or ANOTHER GOSPEL, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with
him.

2 cor 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming
themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of
light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed
as the MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS; whose end shall be according to their
works.

Donna Kupp, for those who do not know, is a woman preaching a false
gospel with a false Christ that denies virtually every possible
essential of the Christian faith.

Note here paul's words about false teachers: they will actually be
"MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS"!!!!! Not antinomians, teaching lawlessness
and freedom to sin, but MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, teaching an
apparently good-sounding Gospel that is actually ANOTHER GOSPEL about
ANOTHER JESUS!

Let us test Donna Kupp's own words against the doctrines of
the New Testament and the Christian church, and see if we can determine
whether she is a servant of God, or actually a minister of Satan!

1. First, Paul warns that a minister of Satan will teach "ANOTHER
JESUS."

Is Donna Kupp's Jesus YOUR Jesus? Is her Jesus the Jesus of
Scripture?

While Donna Kupp just made a number of statements sound like something a
real Christian might make, we cannot make a judgment whether she is or
is not a true Christian based only on what she just posted here. We must
determine if she really teaches the same Jesus REAL Christians follow by
looking at statements she, herself, has made about Christ in the past,
that she may not throw out on a regular basis, because she knows it
reveals what she REALLY thinks about Christ.

So what does she actually say about the Jesus she follows, and
supposedly places faith in?

This...
"In the beginning was Jesus
and Jesus was with THE RULER,
and Jesus was Ruler.
The same was in the beginning with THE RULER."
John was teaching that Jesus was our Ruler (our theos) and that
Jesus was with the Father from the very beginning of creation.
(Not that Jesus was one third of some mysterious and mind-
boggling "Trinity" that no one had ever heard of.)
We can stop right there. Donna Kupp, denying the deity of Christ,
rewrites the Gospel of John in a manner that affirms that denial, so we
can either change all our Bibles to her new trenslation that "proves"
Jesus is NOT fully God, but some other sort of created lesser being, or
we can allow the sacred words of the apostle John to stand AS WRITTEN!

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the WORD
WAS GOD.

So we see her Jesus is ANOTHER JESUS that orthodox Protestants and
Evangelicals (and Catholics) DO NOT believe in.

For US, Jesus is God in flesh, fully God and fully man, and 2nd Person
of the Trinity she goes on to mock and deny.


2. Next, Paul warns that a minister of Satan will teach or operate under
a "DIFFERENT SPIRIT".

Does Donna Kupp teach and receive anoining by the same Holy Spirit that
REAL Christians follow?

Judge for yourself by her own words.
The concept that the Holy Spirit is God is based on a single verse in
Acts (5:3) where it says that Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit - and
later it says that he lied to God.
To conclude that the Holy Spirit is God on the basis of those verses is
merely an interpretation which adds to what is actually written. Since
the Spirit is the means of communciation between God and man, if you
lie to the Spirit you are in effect lying to God. Are there any verses
which actually say that the Holy Spirit is God?
Not one!
Jesus did not teach the Trinity, the apostles did not teach it, and it
was not taught by church leaders for three hundred years after the
death of Christ.
All REAL Christians believe not only in the deity of Christ, but also
the Godhood of the Holy Spirit. As we see from her own words, Donna
Kupp denies those two essentials of the faith, and proclaims the Holy
Spirit is only some nebulous "means of communication between God and
man"

So now we see she has fulfilled the SECOND warning of Paul--she has
A DIFFERENT SPIRIT than REAL Christians do.

By the way, her LIES about the history of the Trinity are instantly
refutable:

The deity of Christ was EXPLICITLY taught by Ignatius in the early 2nd
century

"To the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . chosen through true suffering by
the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God"
"FOR OUR GOD, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God�s
plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit"

Letter to the Ephesians 1 110 AD
There is no record of the co-equal, co-eternal, three-in-one God
being taught by a single one of the early church fathers. It
was not a part of Christian teaching until it was formulated by the
Second Ecumenical Council at Constantinople in 381.A.D.
"No record"?


For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to
the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their
disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty . . . and in one
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in
the Holy Spirit

Irenaeus, before 200 AD

And at the same time the mystery of the oikonomia is safeguarded, for
the unity is distributed in a TRINITY. Placed in order, the three are
the Father, Son, and Spirit. They are three, however, not in condition,
but in degree; not in being, but in form; not in power, but in kind; of
one being, however, and one condition and one power, because he is one
God of whom degrees and forms and kinds are taken into account in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"

Tertullian "Against Praxeas" early 200s AD

For Scripture as much announces Christ AS ALSO GOD, as it announces God
himself as man. It has as much described Jesus Christ to be man, as
moreover it has also described Christ the Lord to be God. Because it
does not set forth him to be the Son of God only, but also the son of
man; nor does it only say, the son of man, but it has also been
accustomed to speak of him as the Son of God. So that being of both, he
is both, lest if he should be one only, he could not be the other. For
as nature itself has prescribed that he must be believed to be a man who
is of man, so the same nature prescribes also that he must be believed
to be God who is of God. . . . Let them, therefore, who read that Jesus
Christ the son of man is man, read also that this same Jesus is called
also God and the Son of God"

Novatian, Treatise on the Trinity 11 235 AD

And now the capstone to Kupp's historial and TEXTUAL illiteracy:

The Lord says: 'I and the Father are one.' And again of the Father and
Son and the Holy Spirit it is written: 'And these three are one'.
Cyprian --Treatise 1 on the unity of the Catholic Church, chapter 6,
early 3rd century, PROVING THE LEGITIMACY OF THE COMMA JOHANNEUM KUPP
(and other historical illiterates) SAY IS A FRAUD.


3. The minister of Satan will also teach "ANOTHER GOSPEL."

Does Donna Kupp uphold the CHRISTIAN gospel? We've already seen she
denies and perverts the nature of Jesus Himself and the precious Holy
Spirit. But what is her actual gospel message? She talks about
obedience, and making Jesus Lord...but what does she really believe
about sin, justification, and sanctification? Does she ever lay out her
beliefs in clear language so the body of Christ can see and judge
whether she is or is not a fellow believer?

Yes!
To be saved is the first step in the process of salvation. Those who
are saved do not have eternal life -
Did you get that? THOSE WHO ARE SAVED ___DO NOT___HAVE ETERNAL LIFE!!!

LET'S CONTRAST THAT WITH SCRIPTURE:

jn 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, HATH eternal life;
and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name
of the Son of God; that YE MAY KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that
ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
"If one who is born of God has truly repented of committing sin
(chosen to cease from sin) and then deliberately commits sin he has
despised the Holy Spirit, just as the OT the Israelites despised the
Law of God. It is blasphemy!"
"When we are converted all past sins are forgiven. After a person is
born-again, only sins of ignorance are forgiven. If a person sins
with knowledge and intent after that time, they have blasphemed
the Holy Spirit and there is no more sacrifice for sin. See Hebrews
6:1-8; Hebrews 10:26-31."
LET'S CONTRAST THAT WITH SCRIPTURE:

Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves
are ALSO FOUND SINNERS, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God
forbid.

Apparently, paul understood that even those justified in Christ STILL
SINNED!

Are we sure? Well, let's again test the doctrine of donna kupp by Paul's
own words, written in the last months of his life:

1 tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation,
that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I AM
CHIEF.

Wait a minute--I thought Donna said any Christian who willingly commits
even ONE SIN is eternally damned!

Apparently, paul did not realize this when he acknowledged he was the
WORST of sinners in 67 AD when he wrote this, 30+ years after finding
Christ! Thus, he must have been guilty of blaspheming the spirit
according to false teachers harold and donna kupp

What else did Paul have to say about whether Christians do or do not
commit sin in romans 7?

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:
for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I
find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: BUT THE EVIL WHICH I WOULD NOT,
____THAT I DO___.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin
that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with
me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my
mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my
members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this
death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I
myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Does THAT sound like a man who has reached the state of sinless
perfection like Donna Kupp, who claims any sin she commits is 100%
accidental and unintentional??????

And this is her ultimate blasphemy regarding the blood of Christ...
Blood of Christ covers: 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light,
as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the
blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (Only sins
of ignorance)
Notice how donna kupp added the words "Only sins of ignorance" to
pervert John's words? Just as she did with the powerful passage in John
1:1, she rejects the message and inserts her own heretical words flat
out CONTRADICTING what was actually written! John says Christ's blood
cleanses us from ALL sin; Donna adds words to change it to all
UNINTENTIONAL sins, making the blood of Christ LIMITED in its ability to
atone for sin.

Kupp also has missed what Jesus said about how imperfect His followers
will always be:

Luke 4:4 And FORGIVE US OUR SINS; for we also forgive every one that is
indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from
evil.

Meanwhile, THIS is God's true message of salvation:

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become
the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

And while Donna Kupp blasphemes the gospel by claiming we keep--and
actually earn--our salvation through keeping the 10 commandments
perfectly, here is what the SCRIPTURE says about how we stay in right
standing security with God:

1 peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a
lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not
away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 WHO ARE KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD __THROUGH FAITH__ UNTO SALVATION
ready to be revealed in the last time.

So now we see her "gospel" IS NOT the gospel of the New testament. It is
a false gospel that...

A. Requires Bible verses to be rewritten in a heretical manner.
B. Requires adding a clarification to Scripture that TOTALLY overturns
what the Scripture actually SAYS.
C. Must deny the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit.
D. Requires remaining in a state of salvation by keeping the 10
commandments PERFECTLY, or else the person is now damned without
possibility of repentance.
E. Blasphemes and limits the atoning power of Christ's blood to
"Only sins of ignorance."


4. As we noted, Paul says the MINISTER OF SATAN will actually appear to
be a MINISTER OF RIGHTEOUSNESS! That is what makes them so deceptive.
They are serpents in the guise of sheep, preaching righteous living and
'keeping God's holy law' while in their hearts is satan himself, drawing
people away from TRUE righteousness, to a perverted notion of it based
on keeping commandments!

Take a look at Donna Kupp's deceptive posts, including this one. Every
one touts the keeping of biblical commandments, threatens people with
damnation for failing to keep biblical commandments, and threatenes them
with damnation if anyone should ever--EVEN ONE TIME--willingly BREAK a
biblical commandment.

So Kupp APPEARS to be preaching the righteousness of 'keeping God's holy
commandments'...yet she does it in a way that is an UTTER PERVERSION of
the gospel of grace, and comes right from the mouth of satan speaking
good things, and making her LOOK like a minister of righetousness.

So, summing it up, Paul says that a minister of satan will...

Preach another Jesus...
Preach under another spirit...
Preach a different gospel...
While appearing to be a minister of righteousness while doing so!

I believe Donna Kupp meets ALL FOUR CRITERIA.

Based on the totality of her teachings, I see no conclusion other than
that the "Jesus" she follows is a demon spirit, and the "Yahweh" she
speaks for is actually SATAN.


I am dead to the law by the crucified body of Christ. Are you?
vince garcia
2012-05-22 14:30:11 UTC
Permalink
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other
gospel unto you than that ye have received, LET HIM BE ACCURSED.

--Apostle paul



John 1:1
Donna Kupp translation
"In the beginning was Jesus
and Jesus was with THE RULER,
and Jesus was Ruler.
The same was in the beginning with THE RULER."
_______________________________________________________________________


John 1:1 CJB
Complete Jewish Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 ESV
English Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 HNV
Hebrew Names Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 KJV
King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 ASV
American Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 BBE
Bible in Basic English
From the first he was the Word, and the Word was in relation with God
and was God.


John 1:1 CEB
Common English Bible
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was
God.


John 1:1 RHE
Douay-Rheims
In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word
was God.

John 1:1 GW
GOD'S WORD Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and
the Word was God.

John 1:1 GNT
Good News Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and
the Word was God.


John 1:1 CSB
Holman Christian Standard
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 LEB
Lexham English Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.

New American Standard
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 NCV
New Century Version
In the beginning there was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 NIRV
New International Reader's Version
In the beginning, the Word was already there. The Word was with God, and
the Word was God.


John 1:1 NIV
New International Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 NKJV
New King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 NLT
New Living Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed. He was with God, and he was
God.


John 1:1 NRS
New Revised Standard
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.

John 1:1 NWT
New World Translation (Jehovah's Witnesses)
1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the
Word was a god.

John 1:1 RSV
Revised Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.

John 1:1 DT
The Darby Translation
In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 MSG
The Message
The Word was first, the Word present to God, God present to the Word.
The Word was God,


John 1:1 WBT
The Webster Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 TMB
Third Millennium Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 TNIV
Today's New International Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 WNT
Weymouth New Testament
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 WEB
World English Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 WYC
Wycliffe
In the beginning was the word, and the word was at God, and God was the
word. [In the beginning was the word, that is, God's Son, and the word
was at God, and God was the word.]


John 1:1 YLT
Young's Literal Translation
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God;




Well...this post shows an example of what Donna and Harold Kupp find it
necessary to do in order to promote THEIR version of Christ and the
Gospel: Rewrite one of the most important verses of scripture, and
pervert it into a ridiculous statement of BS ...for certainly every
Bible that dares render the greek (correctly) as "The word was God" MUST
be wrong.

Apparently, only Harold and Donna Kupp know how to translate scripture
correctly.

Perhaps they claim the anointing and authority of Joseph Smith as well?

As wrong as they are on their 'translation' here is as wrong as they are
on EVERY POINT OF DOCTRINE THEY HAVE.


But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his
subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is
in Christ.
For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS, whom we have not
preached, or if ye receive ANOTHER SPIRIT, which ye have not received,
or ANOTHER GOSPEL, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with
him.

--Apostle paul


Donna Kupp meets all 3 criteria
vince garcia
2012-05-24 13:01:04 UTC
Permalink
‎~ Counterfeit Christianity and Human Secularism allow each person to
have their personal truth.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other
gospel unto you than that ye have received, LET HIM BE ACCURSED.

--Apostle paul
There is no record of the co-equal, co-eternal, three-in-one God
being taught by a single one of the early church fathers. It
was not a part of Christian teaching until it was formulated by the
Second Ecumenical Council at Constantinople in 381.A.D.
--Donna Kupp


NO RECORD BY A "SINGLE ONE" OF THE CHURCH FATHERS???


We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that
he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and
the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness,
saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the
unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are
ignorant of the mystery which lies therein.

CHURCH FATHER Justin Martyr around 160 AD


For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to
the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their
disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty . . . and in one
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in
the Holy Spirit

CHURCH FATHER Irenaeus, before 200 AD

And at the same time the mystery of the oikonomia is safeguarded, for
the unity is distributed in a TRINITY. Placed in order, the three are
the Father, Son, and Spirit. They are three, however, not in condition,
but in degree; not in being, but in form; not in power, but in kind; of
one being, however, and one condition and one power, because he is one
God of whom degrees and forms and kinds are taken into account in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"

CHURCH FATHER Tertullian "Against Praxeas" early 200s AD

The Father's Word, therefore, knowing the economy and the will of the
Father, to wit, that the Father seeks to be worshipped in none other way
than this, gave this charge to the disciples after he rose from the
dead: "Go ye and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the
Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (Matt 28:19) And by this
he showed that whosoever omitted any one of these, failed in glorifying
God perfectly. For it is through THE TRINITY that the Father is
glorified. For the Father willed, the Son did and the Spirit manifested.

CHURCH FATHER Hippolytus of Rome 220 AD

There is one God.... There is a perfect Trinity, in glory and eternity
and sovereignty, neither divided nor estranged. Wherefore there is
nothing either created or in servitude in the Trinity; nor anything
super-induced, as if at some former period it was non-existent, and at
some later period it was introduced. And thus neither was the Son ever
wanting to the Father, nor the Spirit to the Son; but without variation
and without change, the same Trinity abides ever.

CHURCH FATHER Gregory Thaumaturgus 265 AD


For Scripture as much announces Christ AS ALSO GOD, as it announces God
himself as man. It has as much described Jesus Christ to be man, as
moreover it has also described Christ the Lord to be God. Because it
does not set forth him to be the Son of God only, but also the son of
man; nor does it only say, the son of man, but it has also been
accustomed to speak of him as the Son of God. So that being of both, he
is both, lest if he should be one only, he could not be the other. For
as nature itself has prescribed that he must be believed to be a man who
is of man, so the same nature prescribes also that he must be believed
to be God who is of God. . . . Let them, therefore, who read that Jesus
Christ the son of man is man, read also that this same Jesus is called
also God and the Son of God"

Novatian, Treatise on the Trinity 11 235 AD

And now the capstone to Kupp's historial and TEXTUAL illiteracy:

The Lord says: 'I and the Father are one.' And again of the Father and
Son and the Holy Spirit it is written: 'And these three are one'.
Cyprian --Treatise 1 on the unity of the Catholic Church, chapter 6,
early 3rd century, PROVING THE LEGITIMACY OF THE COMMA JOHANNEUM KUPP
(and other historical illiterates) SAY IS A FRAUD.


The purpose of this post is to show the actual truth about how ignorant
and unlearned Donna Kupp actually is, despite trying to pretend she is
some sort of legitimate historian on Chritianity.

Anyone who make THIS sort of claim...
There is no record of the co-equal, co-eternal, three-in-one God
being taught by a single one of the early church fathers. It
was not a part of Christian teaching until it was formulated by the
Second Ecumenical Council at Constantinople in 381.A.D.
...Has no business even giving an opinion on Christian history, let
alone teaching the Bible.

As wrong as she is about THIS, is as wrong as she is on every point of
theology she holds

As is always the case with heretics and cultists, the god of these
people must rely on his representatives speaking lie after lie in an
attemopt to deceive the sheep into following the false teacher and false
god behind the teacher.


But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his
subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is
in Christ.
For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS, whom we have not
preached, or if ye receive ANOTHER SPIRIT, which ye have not received,
or ANOTHER GOSPEL, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with
him.

--Apostle paul


Donna Kupp meets all 3 criteria
Donna Kupp
2012-05-24 21:27:53 UTC
Permalink
EXTRA! EXTRA! READ ALL ABOUT IT!

Why listen to rumors? We invite you to our free journal, website and
moderated forum:

Forum:

http://groups.google.com/group/Freetruth?hl=en,

Journal:

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0

Website:

The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info
vince garcia
2012-05-24 23:05:25 UTC
Permalink
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other
gospel unto you than that ye have received, LET HIM BE ACCURSED.

--Apostle paul



John 1:1
Donna Kupp translation
"In the beginning was Jesus
and Jesus was with THE RULER,
and Jesus was Ruler.
_______________________________________________________________________


John 1:1 CJB
Complete Jewish Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 ESV
English Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 HNV
Hebrew Names Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 KJV
King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 ASV
American Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 BBE
Bible in Basic English
From the first he was the Word, and the Word was in relation with God
and was God.


John 1:1 CEB
Common English Bible
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was
God.


John 1:1 RHE
Douay-Rheims
In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word
was God.

John 1:1 GW
GOD'S WORD Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and
the Word was God.

John 1:1 GNT
Good News Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and
the Word was God.


John 1:1 CSB
Holman Christian Standard
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 LEB
Lexham English Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.

New American Standard
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 NCV
New Century Version
In the beginning there was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 NIRV
New International Reader's Version
In the beginning, the Word was already there. The Word was with God, and
the Word was God.


John 1:1 NIV
New International Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 NKJV
New King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 NLT
New Living Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed. He was with God, and he was
God.


John 1:1 NRS
New Revised Standard
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.

John 1:1 NWT
New World Translation (Jehovah's Witnesses)
1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the
Word was a god.

John 1:1 RSV
Revised Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.

John 1:1 DT
The Darby Translation
In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 MSG
The Message
The Word was first, the Word present to God, God present to the Word.
The Word was God,


John 1:1 WBT
The Webster Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 TMB
Third Millennium Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 TNIV
Today's New International Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 WNT
Weymouth New Testament
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 WEB
World English Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 WYC
Wycliffe
In the beginning was the word, and the word was at God, and God was the
word. [In the beginning was the word, that is, God's Son, and the word
was at God, and God was the word.]


John 1:1 YLT
Young's Literal Translation
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God;




Well...this post shows an example of what Donna and Harold Kupp find it
necessary to do in order to promote THEIR version of Christ and the
Gospel: Rewrite one of the most important verses of scripture, and
pervert it into a ridiculous statement of BS ...for certainly every
Bible that dares render the greek (correctly) as "The word was God" MUST
be wrong.

Apparently, only Harold and Donna Kupp know how to translate scripture
correctly.

Perhaps they claim the anointing and authority of Joseph Smith as well?

As wrong as they are on their 'translation' here is as wrong as they are
on EVERY POINT OF DOCTRINE THEY HAVE.


But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his
subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is
in Christ.
For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS, whom we have not
preached, or if ye receive ANOTHER SPIRIT, which ye have not received,
or ANOTHER GOSPEL, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with
him.

--Apostle paul


Donna Kupp meets all 3 criteria
vince garcia
2012-05-24 23:05:58 UTC
Permalink
‎~ Counterfeit Christianity and Human Secularism allow each person to
have their personal truth.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other
gospel unto you than that ye have received, LET HIM BE ACCURSED.

--Apostle paul
There is no record of the co-equal, co-eternal, three-in-one God
being taught by a single one of the early church fathers. It
was not a part of Christian teaching until it was formulated by the
Second Ecumenical Council at Constantinople in 381.A.D.
--Donna Kupp


NO RECORD BY A "SINGLE ONE" OF THE CHURCH FATHERS???


We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that
he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and
the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness,
saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the
unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are
ignorant of the mystery which lies therein.

CHURCH FATHER Justin Martyr around 160 AD


For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to
the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their
disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty . . . and in one
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in
the Holy Spirit

CHURCH FATHER Irenaeus, before 200 AD

And at the same time the mystery of the oikonomia is safeguarded, for
the unity is distributed in a TRINITY. Placed in order, the three are
the Father, Son, and Spirit. They are three, however, not in condition,
but in degree; not in being, but in form; not in power, but in kind; of
one being, however, and one condition and one power, because he is one
God of whom degrees and forms and kinds are taken into account in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"

CHURCH FATHER Tertullian "Against Praxeas" early 200s AD

The Father's Word, therefore, knowing the economy and the will of the
Father, to wit, that the Father seeks to be worshipped in none other way
than this, gave this charge to the disciples after he rose from the
dead: "Go ye and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the
Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (Matt 28:19) And by this
he showed that whosoever omitted any one of these, failed in glorifying
God perfectly. For it is through THE TRINITY that the Father is
glorified. For the Father willed, the Son did and the Spirit manifested.

CHURCH FATHER Hippolytus of Rome 220 AD

There is one God.... There is a perfect Trinity, in glory and eternity
and sovereignty, neither divided nor estranged. Wherefore there is
nothing either created or in servitude in the Trinity; nor anything
super-induced, as if at some former period it was non-existent, and at
some later period it was introduced. And thus neither was the Son ever
wanting to the Father, nor the Spirit to the Son; but without variation
and without change, the same Trinity abides ever.

CHURCH FATHER Gregory Thaumaturgus 265 AD


For Scripture as much announces Christ AS ALSO GOD, as it announces God
himself as man. It has as much described Jesus Christ to be man, as
moreover it has also described Christ the Lord to be God. Because it
does not set forth him to be the Son of God only, but also the son of
man; nor does it only say, the son of man, but it has also been
accustomed to speak of him as the Son of God. So that being of both, he
is both, lest if he should be one only, he could not be the other. For
as nature itself has prescribed that he must be believed to be a man who
is of man, so the same nature prescribes also that he must be believed
to be God who is of God. . . . Let them, therefore, who read that Jesus
Christ the son of man is man, read also that this same Jesus is called
also God and the Son of God"

Novatian, Treatise on the Trinity 11 235 AD

And now the capstone to Kupp's historial and TEXTUAL illiteracy:

The Lord says: 'I and the Father are one.' And again of the Father and
Son and the Holy Spirit it is written: 'And these three are one'.
Cyprian --Treatise 1 on the unity of the Catholic Church, chapter 6,
early 3rd century, PROVING THE LEGITIMACY OF THE COMMA JOHANNEUM KUPP
(and other historical illiterates) SAY IS A FRAUD.


The purpose of this post is to show the actual truth about how ignorant
and unlearned Donna Kupp actually is, despite trying to pretend she is
some sort of legitimate historian on Chritianity.

Anyone who make THIS sort of claim...
There is no record of the co-equal, co-eternal, three-in-one God
being taught by a single one of the early church fathers. It
was not a part of Christian teaching until it was formulated by the
Second Ecumenical Council at Constantinople in 381.A.D.
...Has no business even giving an opinion on Christian history, let
alone teaching the Bible.

As wrong as she is about THIS, is as wrong as she is on every point of
theology she holds

As is always the case with heretics and cultists, the god of these
people must rely on his representatives speaking lie after lie in an
attemopt to deceive the sheep into following the false teacher and false
god behind the teacher.


But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his
subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is
in Christ.
For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS, whom we have not
preached, or if ye receive ANOTHER SPIRIT, which ye have not received,
or ANOTHER GOSPEL, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with
him.

--Apostle paul


Donna Kupp meets all 3 criteria
Donna Kupp
2012-05-24 21:25:50 UTC
Permalink
EXTRA! EXTRA! READ ALL ABOUT IT!

Why listen to rumors? We invite you to our free journal, website and
moderated forum:

Forum:

http://groups.google.com/group/Freetruth?hl=en,

Journal:

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0

Website:

The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info
vince garcia
2012-05-24 23:06:14 UTC
Permalink
‎~ Counterfeit Christianity and Human Secularism allow each person to
have their personal truth.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other
gospel unto you than that ye have received, LET HIM BE ACCURSED.

--Apostle paul
There is no record of the co-equal, co-eternal, three-in-one God
being taught by a single one of the early church fathers. It
was not a part of Christian teaching until it was formulated by the
Second Ecumenical Council at Constantinople in 381.A.D.
--Donna Kupp


NO RECORD BY A "SINGLE ONE" OF THE CHURCH FATHERS???


We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that
he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and
the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness,
saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the
unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are
ignorant of the mystery which lies therein.

CHURCH FATHER Justin Martyr around 160 AD


For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to
the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their
disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty . . . and in one
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in
the Holy Spirit

CHURCH FATHER Irenaeus, before 200 AD

And at the same time the mystery of the oikonomia is safeguarded, for
the unity is distributed in a TRINITY. Placed in order, the three are
the Father, Son, and Spirit. They are three, however, not in condition,
but in degree; not in being, but in form; not in power, but in kind; of
one being, however, and one condition and one power, because he is one
God of whom degrees and forms and kinds are taken into account in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"

CHURCH FATHER Tertullian "Against Praxeas" early 200s AD

The Father's Word, therefore, knowing the economy and the will of the
Father, to wit, that the Father seeks to be worshipped in none other way
than this, gave this charge to the disciples after he rose from the
dead: "Go ye and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the
Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (Matt 28:19) And by this
he showed that whosoever omitted any one of these, failed in glorifying
God perfectly. For it is through THE TRINITY that the Father is
glorified. For the Father willed, the Son did and the Spirit manifested.

CHURCH FATHER Hippolytus of Rome 220 AD

There is one God.... There is a perfect Trinity, in glory and eternity
and sovereignty, neither divided nor estranged. Wherefore there is
nothing either created or in servitude in the Trinity; nor anything
super-induced, as if at some former period it was non-existent, and at
some later period it was introduced. And thus neither was the Son ever
wanting to the Father, nor the Spirit to the Son; but without variation
and without change, the same Trinity abides ever.

CHURCH FATHER Gregory Thaumaturgus 265 AD


For Scripture as much announces Christ AS ALSO GOD, as it announces God
himself as man. It has as much described Jesus Christ to be man, as
moreover it has also described Christ the Lord to be God. Because it
does not set forth him to be the Son of God only, but also the son of
man; nor does it only say, the son of man, but it has also been
accustomed to speak of him as the Son of God. So that being of both, he
is both, lest if he should be one only, he could not be the other. For
as nature itself has prescribed that he must be believed to be a man who
is of man, so the same nature prescribes also that he must be believed
to be God who is of God. . . . Let them, therefore, who read that Jesus
Christ the son of man is man, read also that this same Jesus is called
also God and the Son of God"

Novatian, Treatise on the Trinity 11 235 AD

And now the capstone to Kupp's historial and TEXTUAL illiteracy:

The Lord says: 'I and the Father are one.' And again of the Father and
Son and the Holy Spirit it is written: 'And these three are one'.
Cyprian --Treatise 1 on the unity of the Catholic Church, chapter 6,
early 3rd century, PROVING THE LEGITIMACY OF THE COMMA JOHANNEUM KUPP
(and other historical illiterates) SAY IS A FRAUD.


The purpose of this post is to show the actual truth about how ignorant
and unlearned Donna Kupp actually is, despite trying to pretend she is
some sort of legitimate historian on Chritianity.

Anyone who make THIS sort of claim...
There is no record of the co-equal, co-eternal, three-in-one God
being taught by a single one of the early church fathers. It
was not a part of Christian teaching until it was formulated by the
Second Ecumenical Council at Constantinople in 381.A.D.
...Has no business even giving an opinion on Christian history, let
alone teaching the Bible.

As wrong as she is about THIS, is as wrong as she is on every point of
theology she holds

As is always the case with heretics and cultists, the god of these
people must rely on his representatives speaking lie after lie in an
attemopt to deceive the sheep into following the false teacher and false
god behind the teacher.


But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his
subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is
in Christ.
For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS, whom we have not
preached, or if ye receive ANOTHER SPIRIT, which ye have not received,
or ANOTHER GOSPEL, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with
him.

--Apostle paul


Donna Kupp meets all 3 criteria
Hamster
2012-05-26 15:02:42 UTC
Permalink
Hello, vince!
You wrote on Thu, 24 May 2012 16:06:14 -0700:

"From the crest of Olivet, Jesus looked upon Jerusalem. Fair and
peaceful was the scene spread out before Him. It was the season of the
Passover, and from all lands the children of Jacob had gathered there to
celebrate the great national festival. In the midst of gardens and
vineyards, and green slopes studded with pilgrims? tents, rose the
terraced hills, the stately palaces, and massive bulwarks of Israel?s
capital. The daughter of Zion seemed in her pride to say, "I sit a
queen, and shall see no sorrow;" as lovely then, and deeming herself as
secure in Heaven?s favor, as when, ages before, the royal minstrel sang,
"Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is Mount Zion,"
"the city of the great King." Psalm 48:2. In full view were the
magnificent buildings of the temple. The rays of the setting sun lighted
up the snowy whiteness of its marble walls, and gleamed from golden gate
and tower and pinnacle. "The perfection of beauty" it stood, the pride
of the Jewish nation. What child of Israel could gaze upon the scene
without a thrill of joy and admiration! But far other thoughts occupied
the mind of Jesus. "When He was come near, He beheld the city, and wept
over it." Luke 19:41. Amid the universal rejoicing of the triumphal
entry, while palm branches waved, while glad hosannas awoke the echoes
of the hills, and thousands of voices declared Him king, the world?s
Redeemer was overwhelmed with a sudden and mysterious sorrow. He, the
Son of God, the Promised One of Israel, whose power had conquered death,
and called its captives from the grave, was in tears, not of ordinary
grief, but of intense, irrepressible agony."

...The Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan

With best regards, Hamster.
E-mail: ***@remailer.com
by Organization Web News Mailer
j***@satx.rr.com
2012-05-26 18:35:57 UTC
Permalink
Donna Kupp wrote,


"In the beginning was Jesus
and Jesus was with THE RULER,
and Jesus was Ruler.
The same was in the beginning with THE RULER."
John was teaching that Jesus was our Ruler (our theos) and that
Jesus was with the Father from the very beginning of creation.
(Not that Jesus was one third of some mysterious and mind-
boggling "Trinity" that no one had ever heard of.)"


HOW ANCIENT IS THE TRINITY DOCTRINE?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by Wesley P. Walters

As different as para-Christian groups or cults are from each other,
most have one thing in common: they hate the biblical teaching of the
Trinity. They want their God to be simplistic, uncomplicated, and less
complex than the world He created. They want a God reduced to terms
they can get their finite minds around.

Modern advances in science have shown that the created world is an
extremely complex mechanism. Those who work in nuclear physics or
molecular biology are continually discovering the complexity of the
world God has created.

In fact, some complex, seemingly contradictory data has yet to be
fitted into a rational system that explains the relationships. A
simple thing like "light" is known to move like "waves" yet strike
like "particles." Atomic physicists are still struggling to put
together a theory that can fully explain this apparent contradiction.

Those who work in the complex mathematical equations of quantum
mechanics are told by their instructors that "If you think that you
really understand quantum mechanics and how it applies to reality,
that proves you do not understand it." One of the basic theorems is
that if the speed of a particle is known, then its location can not be
known, and the more accurately you know its location, the less
accurately you know its speed. This does not seem very logical to the
average person, but it works very well in atomic physics, in which
scientists get very close to the essence of matter.

Thus, while scientists are continually learning more about how complex
and even apparently contradictory the world of created reality is,
cults that reject the complexity of the God who made this reality are
proliferating. They, along with Moslems and modern Jews, taunt
Christians, saying: "How can there be just one God, and yet the Father
be God, the Son be God and the Holy Spirit be God? Is He the Son of
Himself and the Father of both?"

Even though Christ Himself taught that the name [singular] of God in
which we baptize is Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19), all
cults falsely assert that the doctrine of the Trinity is a teaching
that grew out of fourth century paganism. So unified are the cults in
this assertion that they appear to be using the same erroneous Church
history book and parroting one another.

The truth is that by the time of Christ, the first century A.D., the
Jews themselves, on the basis of the Old Testament, were coming to an
understanding of the complexity of Yahweh.



The Teachings of The Targums
When the Jews returned from Babylonian captivity 450 years before the
birth of Jesus, they had adopted Aramaic as their native language.
Although it is a dialect of ancient Hebrew, Aramaic is about as
different from it as modern Italian is from its classical Latin
ancestor. Consequently, during the first and early second centuries
A.D., Aramaic translations of the Hebrew Old Testament were made.

These translations, called Targums, were The Living Bibles of their
day, an interpretive paraphrase of Scripture. They help us see how
these first-century Jews understood their Old Testament.

One of the striking things these Targums show is that first century
Jews had come to understand the phrase "the Word of God" as referring
to a divine entity within God Himself, yet distinguishable at times
from God. J.W. Etheridge, in the introduction to his translations of
the Targums of Onkelos and Jonathan, has given us a number of examples
of this Jewish understanding of the term, "the Word" (Aramaic: Memra).

In Genesis 18:1, where the Hebrew Bible says Yahweh (Jehovah) appeared
to Abraham, the Targum says, "The Word of the Lord appeared to
Abraham." Further on, where the Hebrew reports "Yahweh rained down
upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh out of
heaven," the Targum states that "the Word of the Lord sent down upon
them sulphur and fire from the presence of the Lord out of
heaven." (Genesis 19:24)

In Genesis 16, when Hagar sees "the Angel of the Lord," the Targum
says she saw "the Word of the Lord." After seeing this "Word" (Memra)
she says, "Here has been revealed the glory of the Shekineh of the
Lord." Then, according to the Jerusalem Targum, "Hagar returned thanks
and prayed in the name of the Word of the Lord, who had appeared to
her." Thus the Word not only is regard- ed as the presence of deity,
but is in some manner personally distinguishable from the Lord.

In Genesis 28:20 the Targum of Onkelos paraphrases Jacob's vow, "If
God will be with me... then Yahweh will be my God" with the words, "If
the Word of the Lord will be my help... the Word of the Lord shall be
my God." Again, the Angel of Yahweh who spoke to Moses at the burning
bush (Exodus 3:14) is designated by the Jerusalem Targum as "the Word
of the Lord."

The distinct personality of this Divine Word is seen pointedly in
Jonathan's Targum of Isaiah 63:7-10. There, where the Hebrew text
speaks of Yahweh being their Savior, the Targum reads, "the Word
(Memra) was their Redeemer." (vs. 8) When the Israelites continued to
disobey, then "His Word (Memra) became their enemy, and fought against
them" -- an action ascribed to Yahweh in the Hebrew text. Again in
Isaiah 45:22 the Targum of Jonathan exhorts, "Look unto My Word and be
saved."

While this personalizing of the Word was being expressed in Palestine
in the Targums of Jesus' day, Philo, an Egyptian Jew and contemporary
of Jesus, was expressing similar thoughts in even more distinct words.
In his essay "On the Creation," Philo states that man was not made in
the image of some creature, but in the image of God's own uncreated
Word. He wrote: "for the Creator, we know, employed for its making no
pattern taken from among created things, but solely, as I have said,
His own Word."

Philo continues: "Man was made a likeness and imitation of the Word,
when the Divine Breath was breathed into his face. ("On the Creation,"
XLVIII: 139, Loeb Edition I, pp. 110-111)

In his work on Noah, Philo again expresses the teaching that man is
made by "the First Cause" (that is, God) in the image of "the Eternal
Word:" "Our great Moses likened the fashion of the rea- sonable soul
to no created thing, but averred it to be a genuine coinage of that
dread Spirit, the Divine and Invisible One, signed and impressed by
the seal of God, the stamp of which is the Eternal Word."

He continues: "...man has been made after the Image of God (Genesis
1:27), not however after the image of anything created... man's soul
having been made after the image of the Archetype, the Word of the
First Cause." ("Noah's Work as a Planter," I:18-20, Loeb III, pp.
222-223)

Thus, the eternal Word is in some sense distinguishable from God, and
yet at the same time is, like God, uncreated, rational and the bearer
of the divine image. This comes very close to the teaching of the New
Testament that the Word was distinguishable from God, and yet was God.
As John 1:1 expresses it, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word
was with God, and the Word was God." It also appears similar to Paul's
teaching that the Son is "the image of the invisible God" (Colossians
1:15); and the writer of Hebrews statement that the Son "is the exact
representation of His being." (Hebrews 1:3)

Philo, however, goes further. He says that God is the king and
shepherd of all creation, but rules and controls it through his
eternally existing Word, whom Philo calls God's "First-born Son."

His "hallowed flock" of created things God directs by his divine laws,
setting over it His true Word and first-born son, who shall take upon
Him its government like some viceroy of a great king. ("On Husbandry,"
I:51, Loeb III, pp. 134-135)

Philo has God expressing Himself in this manner: "I alone... sustained
the Universe to rest firm and sure upon the Mighty Word, who is My
viceroy." ("On Dreams," I:241, Loeb V, pp. 424- 425)

Therefore this eternal Word, God's first-born Son, is the upholder of
the whole creation, "the everlasting Word of the eternal God is the
very sure and staunch prop of the Whole. He it is, who extending
Himself from the midst to its utmost bounds... keeps up through all
its length Nature's unvanquished course, combining and compacting all
its parts. For the Father who begat Him constituted His Word such a
Bond of the Universe as nothing can break." ("Noah's Work as a
Planter," I:8-9, Loeb III, pp. 216-217)

This reflects the same thought that Paul expressed about the Son as
being the one "in whom all things hold together." (Colossians 1:17) It
also reminds also reminds us of Hebrews 1:3, which depicts the Son as
"sustaining all things by his powerful Word."

Philo continues his discussion of the Word by maintaining that to
those incapable of seeing the supreme cause, God Himself, He appears
to them in the form of His Angel, the Word: "For just as those who are
unable to see the sun itself, see the gleam of the parahelion and take
it for the sun, and take the halo round the moon for that luminary
itself, so some regard the image of God, His Angel, the Word, as His
very self." ("On Dreams," I:239, Loeb V, pp. 422-423) This sounds very
similar to the teaching tha t the Son is "the radiance (or outshining)
of God's glory" (Hebrews 1:3), the only part of God's nature that
people are allowed to see. This is true because "no one has ever seen
God," but "the only begotten God... He has made Him known." (John
1:18) Thus, Jesus, the Son, can say, "Anyone who has seen me has seen
the Father." (John 14:9)

Philo further explained that God, being light, is "the archetype of
every other light." As such He is "prior to and high above every
archetype." Thus He holds the position of "a model of a model," that
is, He is the model for His Word, which Word becomes the model for
creation. The Word, therefore, contains all the qualities of God. As
Philo expressed it, "the model or pattern was the Word which contained
all His fullness -- light, in fact." ("On Dreams," I:75, Loeb V, pp.
336-337) Paul expressed a similar thought when he wrote that in the
Son all God's fullness dwells. (Colossians 1:19; 2:9)

To Philo, therefore, the Word of God is the eternal, uncreated Word
containing all the fullness of God and bearing His image. That divine
image which the Word bears is the image in which man was created. The
Word is further the sustainer, upholder and ruler of the world,
carrying on the governing of all things, as God's viceroy, and
containing all God's fullness.

While the Word is not a created thing and carries on all the functions
of God, Philo is clear that there are not two gods -- although he does
not attempt to explain how this can be. Philo's teaching is,
therefore, very close to the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Philo
reached his conclusions without the aid of the New Testament and
certainly without deriving his ideas from pagan notions of deity. The
Old Testament teaching that the Angel of Yahweh is really the presence
of Yahweh Himself seems to have strongly influenced Philo's ideas.

To relegate the doctrine of the Trinity, therefore, to a fourth-
century adaptation of paganism is to ignore the conclusions that
several Jewish theologians and teachers had reached four centuries
earlier, from God's revelations given to Israel before the time of the
coming of Christ. At the very time that the Word was becoming flesh
(John 1:1, 14), Jewish writers were already beginning to see that
God's Word could in some way be distinguished from God the Father
Himself, yet have all the fullness of God contained in Him.

http://www.barr-family.com/godsword/trinity.htm
H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
2012-05-29 06:55:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Donna Kupp wrote,
"In the beginning was Jesus
and Jesus was with THE RULER,
and Jesus was Ruler.
The same was in the beginning with THE RULER."
John was teaching that Jesus was our Ruler (our theos) and that
Jesus was with the Father from the very beginning of creation.
(Not that Jesus was one third of some mysterious and mind-
boggling "Trinity" that no one had ever heard of.)"
HOW ANCIENT IS THE TRINITY DOCTRINE?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
by Wesley P. Walters
As different as para-Christian groups or cults are from each other,
most have one thing in common: they hate the biblical teaching of the
Trinity. They want their God to be simplistic, uncomplicated, and less
complex than the world He created. They want a God reduced to terms
they can get their finite minds around.
Modern advances in science have shown that the created world is an
extremely complex mechanism. Those who work in nuclear physics or
molecular biology are continually discovering the complexity of the
world God has created.
In fact, some complex, seemingly contradictory data has yet to be
fitted into a rational system that explains the relationships. A
simple thing like "light" is known to move like "waves" yet strike
like "particles." Atomic physicists are still struggling to put
together a theory that can fully explain this apparent contradiction.
Those who work in the complex mathematical equations of quantum
mechanics are told by their instructors that "If you think that you
really understand quantum mechanics and how it applies to reality,
that proves you do not understand it." One of the basic theorems is
that if the speed of a particle is known, then its location can not be
known, and the more accurately you know its location, the less
accurately you know its speed. This does not seem very logical to the
average person, but it works very well in atomic physics, in which
scientists get very close to the essence of matter.
Thus, while scientists are continually learning more about how complex
and even apparently contradictory the world of created reality is,
cults that reject the complexity of the God who made this reality are
proliferating. They, along with Moslems and modern Jews, taunt
Christians, saying: "How can there be just one God, and yet the Father
be God, the Son be God and the Holy Spirit be God? Is He the Son of
Himself and the Father of both?"
Even though Christ Himself taught that the name [singular] of God in
which we baptize is Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19), all
cults falsely assert that the doctrine of the Trinity is a teaching
that grew out of fourth century paganism. So unified are the cults in
this assertion that they appear to be using the same erroneous Church
history book and parroting one another.
The truth is that by the time of Christ, the first century A.D., the
Jews themselves, on the basis of the Old Testament, were coming to an
understanding of the complexity of Yahweh.
The Teachings of The Targums
When the Jews returned from Babylonian captivity 450 years before the
birth of Jesus, they had adopted Aramaic as their native language.
Although it is a dialect of ancient Hebrew, Aramaic is about as
different from it as modern Italian is from its classical Latin
ancestor. Consequently, during the first and early second centuries
A.D., Aramaic translations of the Hebrew Old Testament were made.
These translations, called Targums, were The Living Bibles of their
day, an interpretive paraphrase of Scripture. They help us see how
these first-century Jews understood their Old Testament.
One of the striking things these Targums show is that first century
Jews had come to understand the phrase "the Word of God" as referring
to a divine entity within God Himself, yet distinguishable at times
from God. J.W. Etheridge, in the introduction to his translations of
the Targums of Onkelos and Jonathan, has given us a number of examples
of this Jewish understanding of the term, "the Word" (Aramaic: Memra).
In Genesis 18:1, where the Hebrew Bible says Yahweh (Jehovah) appeared
to Abraham, the Targum says, "The Word of the Lord appeared to
Abraham." Further on, where the Hebrew reports "Yahweh rained down
upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh out of
heaven," the Targum states that "the Word of the Lord sent down upon
them sulphur and fire from the presence of the Lord out of
heaven." (Genesis 19:24)
In Genesis 16, when Hagar sees "the Angel of the Lord," the Targum
says she saw "the Word of the Lord." After seeing this "Word" (Memra)
she says, "Here has been revealed the glory of the Shekineh of the
Lord." Then, according to the Jerusalem Targum, "Hagar returned thanks
and prayed in the name of the Word of the Lord, who had appeared to
her." Thus the Word not only is regard- ed as the presence of deity,
but is in some manner personally distinguishable from the Lord.
In Genesis 28:20 the Targum of Onkelos paraphrases Jacob's vow, "If
God will be with me... then Yahweh will be my God" with the words, "If
the Word of the Lord will be my help... the Word of the Lord shall be
my God." Again, the Angel of Yahweh who spoke to Moses at the burning
bush (Exodus 3:14) is designated by the Jerusalem Targum as "the Word
of the Lord."
The distinct personality of this Divine Word is seen pointedly in
Jonathan's Targum of Isaiah 63:7-10. There, where the Hebrew text
speaks of Yahweh being their Savior, the Targum reads, "the Word
(Memra) was their Redeemer." (vs. 8) When the Israelites continued to
disobey, then "His Word (Memra) became their enemy, and fought against
them" -- an action ascribed to Yahweh in the Hebrew text. Again in
Isaiah 45:22 the Targum of Jonathan exhorts, "Look unto My Word and be
saved."
While this personalizing of the Word was being expressed in Palestine
in the Targums of Jesus' day, Philo, an Egyptian Jew and contemporary
of Jesus, was expressing similar thoughts in even more distinct words.
In his essay "On the Creation," Philo states that man was not made in
the image of some creature, but in the image of God's own uncreated
Word. He wrote: "for the Creator, we know, employed for its making no
pattern taken from among created things, but solely, as I have said,
His own Word."
Philo continues: "Man was made a likeness and imitation of the Word,
when the Divine Breath was breathed into his face. ("On the Creation,"
XLVIII: 139, Loeb Edition I, pp. 110-111)
In his work on Noah, Philo again expresses the teaching that man is
made by "the First Cause" (that is, God) in the image of "the Eternal
Word:" "Our great Moses likened the fashion of the rea- sonable soul
to no created thing, but averred it to be a genuine coinage of that
dread Spirit, the Divine and Invisible One, signed and impressed by
the seal of God, the stamp of which is the Eternal Word."
He continues: "...man has been made after the Image of God (Genesis
1:27), not however after the image of anything created... man's soul
having been made after the image of the Archetype, the Word of the
First Cause." ("Noah's Work as a Planter," I:18-20, Loeb III, pp.
222-223)
Thus, the eternal Word is in some sense distinguishable from God, and
yet at the same time is, like God, uncreated, rational and the bearer
of the divine image. This comes very close to the teaching of the New
Testament that the Word was distinguishable from God, and yet was God.
As John 1:1 expresses it, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word
was with God, and the Word was God." It also appears similar to Paul's
teaching that the Son is "the image of the invisible God" (Colossians
1:15); and the writer of Hebrews statement that the Son "is the exact
representation of His being." (Hebrews 1:3)
Philo, however, goes further. He says that God is the king and
shepherd of all creation, but rules and controls it through his
eternally existing Word, whom Philo calls God's "First-born Son."
His "hallowed flock" of created things God directs by his divine laws,
setting over it His true Word and first-born son, who shall take upon
Him its government like some viceroy of a great king. ("On Husbandry,"
I:51, Loeb III, pp. 134-135)
Philo has God expressing Himself in this manner: "I alone... sustained
the Universe to rest firm and sure upon the Mighty Word, who is My
viceroy." ("On Dreams," I:241, Loeb V, pp. 424- 425)
Therefore this eternal Word, God's first-born Son, is the upholder of
the whole creation, "the everlasting Word of the eternal God is the
very sure and staunch prop of the Whole. He it is, who extending
Himself from the midst to its utmost bounds... keeps up through all
its length Nature's unvanquished course, combining and compacting all
its parts. For the Father who begat Him constituted His Word such a
Bond of the Universe as nothing can break." ("Noah's Work as a
Planter," I:8-9, Loeb III, pp. 216-217)
This reflects the same thought that Paul expressed about the Son as
being the one "in whom all things hold together." (Colossians 1:17) It
also reminds also reminds us of Hebrews 1:3, which depicts the Son as
"sustaining all things by his powerful Word."
Philo continues his discussion of the Word by maintaining that to
those incapable of seeing the supreme cause, God Himself, He appears
to them in the form of His Angel, the Word: "For just as those who are
unable to see the sun itself, see the gleam of the parahelion and take
it for the sun, and take the halo round the moon for that luminary
itself, so some regard the image of God, His Angel, the Word, as His
very self." ("On Dreams," I:239, Loeb V, pp. 422-423) This sounds very
similar to the teaching tha t the Son is "the radiance (or outshining)
of God's glory" (Hebrews 1:3), the only part of God's nature that
people are allowed to see. This is true because "no one has ever seen
God," but "the only begotten God... He has made Him known." (John
1:18) Thus, Jesus, the Son, can say, "Anyone who has seen me has seen
the Father." (John 14:9)
Philo further explained that God, being light, is "the archetype of
every other light." As such He is "prior to and high above every
archetype." Thus He holds the position of "a model of a model," that
is, He is the model for His Word, which Word becomes the model for
creation. The Word, therefore, contains all the qualities of God. As
Philo expressed it, "the model or pattern was the Word which contained
all His fullness -- light, in fact." ("On Dreams," I:75, Loeb V, pp.
336-337) Paul expressed a similar thought when he wrote that in the
Son all God's fullness dwells. (Colossians 1:19; 2:9)
To Philo, therefore, the Word of God is the eternal, uncreated Word
containing all the fullness of God and bearing His image. That divine
image which the Word bears is the image in which man was created. The
Word is further the sustainer, upholder and ruler of the world,
carrying on the governing of all things, as God's viceroy, and
containing all God's fullness.
While the Word is not a created thing and carries on all the functions
of God, Philo is clear that there are not two gods -- although he does
not attempt to explain how this can be. Philo's teaching is,
therefore, very close to the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Philo
reached his conclusions without the aid of the New Testament and
certainly without deriving his ideas from pagan notions of deity. The
Old Testament teaching that the Angel of Yahweh is really the presence
of Yahweh Himself seems to have strongly influenced Philo's ideas.
To relegate the doctrine of the Trinity, therefore, to a fourth-
century adaptation of paganism is to ignore the conclusions that
several Jewish theologians and teachers had reached four centuries
earlier, from God's revelations given to Israel before the time of the
coming of Christ. At the very time that the Word was becoming flesh
(John 1:1, 14), Jewish writers were already beginning to see that
God's Word could in some way be distinguished from God the Father
Himself, yet have all the fullness of God contained in Him.
http://www.barr-family.com/godsword/trinity.htm
Yes, while the traditional doctrine of the Trinity comes up short
somewhat (because the theologians of the time couldn't perceive of
eternally existing paradoxes, like the fact that God is both singular
and plural at the same time), it's still better than the outright
blasphemy of the cultists who deny that Jesus is divine in His own
right, and is, in fact, the pivot point around which everything else works.

Ike
--
http://thetriunist.weebly.com/index.html
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/The-Triune-Hypothesis/102657386473773
vince garcia
2012-05-24 23:10:04 UTC
Permalink
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other
gospel unto you than that ye have received, LET HIM BE ACCURSED.

--Apostle paul



John 1:1
Donna Kupp translation
"In the beginning was Jesus
and Jesus was with THE RULER,
and Jesus was Ruler."
_______________________________________________________________________


John 1:1 CJB
Complete Jewish Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 ESV
English Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 HNV
Hebrew Names Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 KJV
King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 ASV
American Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 BBE
Bible in Basic English
From the first he was the Word, and the Word was in relation with God
and was God.


John 1:1 CEB
Common English Bible
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was
God.


John 1:1 RHE
Douay-Rheims
In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word
was God.

John 1:1 GW
GOD'S WORD Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and
the Word was God.

John 1:1 GNT
Good News Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and
the Word was God.


John 1:1 CSB
Holman Christian Standard
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 LEB
Lexham English Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.

New American Standard
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 NCV
New Century Version
In the beginning there was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 NIRV
New International Reader's Version
In the beginning, the Word was already there. The Word was with God, and
the Word was God.


John 1:1 NIV
New International Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 NKJV
New King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 NLT
New Living Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed. He was with God, and he was
God.


John 1:1 NRS
New Revised Standard
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.

John 1:1 NWT
New World Translation (Jehovah's Witnesses)
1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the
Word was a god.

John 1:1 RSV
Revised Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.

John 1:1 DT
The Darby Translation
In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 MSG
The Message
The Word was first, the Word present to God, God present to the Word.
The Word was God,


John 1:1 WBT
The Webster Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 TMB
Third Millennium Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 TNIV
Today's New International Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 WNT
Weymouth New Testament
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 WEB
World English Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 WYC
Wycliffe
In the beginning was the word, and the word was at God, and God was the
word. [In the beginning was the word, that is, God's Son, and the word
was at God, and God was the word.]


John 1:1 YLT
Young's Literal Translation
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God;




Well...this post shows an example of what Donna and Harold Kupp find it
necessary to do in order to promote THEIR version of Christ and the
Gospel: Rewrite one of the most important verses of scripture, and
pervert it into a ridiculous statement of BS ...for certainly every
Bible that dares render the greek (correctly) as "The word was God" MUST
be wrong.

Apparently, only Harold and Donna Kupp know how to translate scripture
correctly.

Perhaps they claim the anointing and authority of Joseph Smith as well?

As wrong as they are on their 'translation' here is as wrong as they are
on EVERY POINT OF DOCTRINE THEY HAVE.


But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his
subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is
in Christ.
For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS, whom we have not
preached, or if ye receive ANOTHER SPIRIT, which ye have not received,
or ANOTHER GOSPEL, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with
him.

--Apostle paul


Donna Kupp meets all 3 criteria
j***@satx.rr.com
2012-05-24 23:14:42 UTC
Permalink
found on internet

http://acriticalchristian1971.wordpress.com/my-reseach-on-harold-and-donna-kupp/

My research on Harold and Donna Kupp
Before the arrival of Richard Rives there was Harold and Donna Kupp.

The Kupps ‘MO’ is leaving various posts or ‘teachings’ on Christian
forums. Where they spew their homemade Theonomist philosophy.
Apparently they started doing this back in 1994.

For easier reference I have posted thier ‘teachings’ in bold…

EXAMPLES of their teachings:

(Theonomy)

“Keep my commandments – Sabbath (Jesus Christ, priest, moral,
testimony)”

http://www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/453465-keep-my-commandments-sabbath.html

(Theonomy doctrines)

“THE SEVEN DECEPTIONS of Modern Christianity”

“Harold Kupp”

http://www.freetruth.info/THE%20SEVEN%20DECEPTIONS/

(Rejects the Doctrine of God being Triune)



“THE TRINITY FRAUD”

http://www.opennntp.com/Bible/the-trinity-fraud-712779866.html

“Will They Walk In My Law –Or No?”

http://www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/453465-keep-my-commandments-sabbath-2.html

Eventually they wrote a series of articles and a free online book
which can be found here on their website:

http://www.freetruth.info/THE%20SEVEN%20DECEPTIONS/

EXAMPLES OF THEIR BELIEFS:

“GENTILES MUST KEEP THE SABBATH TO BE THE ISRAEL OF GOD”

…“THE OLD COVENANT WAS WITH ISRAEL AND WAS WRITTEN IN STONE“THE NEW
COVENANT IS WITH ISRAEL AND IS WRITTEN IN THE HEARTBUT THE
COMMANDMENTS REMAIN THE SAME”



“Today, Gentiles and Jews, who have faith in Jesus Christ are the
Israel of God. The Ten Commandments (including the Sabbath
Commandment) are no longer written on tables of stone, but are now
engraved upon the hearts of the people of God. “



“We MUST obey The Ten Commandments and the teaching of Jesus –and our
salvation DOES depend upon that obedience. Jesus Christ, The Judge,
gives his last warning to the churches:”…

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/1084492/gentiles-must-keep-the-sabbath-to-be-the-israel-of-god

…“GENTILES MUST KEEP THE SABBATH HOLY”



“Today, the Gentiles who join themselves to the LORD, take hold

of the New Covenant that God made with the house of Israel. Only

those who keep the Sabbath holy and obey the Covenant can come

to “His holy mountain” and fulfill this prophecy of Isaiah:”



“Neither let the son of the stranger [Gentile], that hath joined

himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly

separated me from his people … the sons of the stranger, that join

themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the

LORD, to be his servants, EVERY ONE THAT KEEPETH THE

SABBATH FROM POLLUTING IT, AND TAKETH HOLD OF

MY COVENANT; Even them will I bring to my holy mountain,

and make them joyful in my house of prayer: … for mine house

shall be called an house of prayer for all people.” Isa 56-3-7 (KJV)”



“The Scriptures are absolutely clear … Those whom God brings to

His holy mountain are those who keep the Sabbath:”



“…the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to

serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants,

Every one that keepth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold

of my covenant”…

http://groups.google.com/group/Freetruth?hl=en,

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0

What Harold and Donna seem to think of themselves:

“THE DEFINITION OF A SPIRITUAL JEW”



“ “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that
circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:”



“ But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that
of the heart,

in the spirit, and not in the letter; **whose praise is not of men,
but of God.**”

“Rom 2:28-29 (KJV)”



“When our only desire is to please God, we have great freedom.
Indeed, the spirit of anti-christ can no longer manipulate or control
us with the approval –or criticism of men. “



“Donna Kupp”



“ “And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with
the remnant of her seed, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE
THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.” Rev 12:17 (KJV)”



“The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity

http://www.freetruth.info”

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/1094658/the-definition-of-a-spiritual-jew

Why I believe the Kupps to be a Theonomy Cultist and not SDA follower?
Allow me to use these statements as evidence against them.

“Dear brothers and sisters in Christ, “

“Harold and I have no denominational ax to grind. We are not

Adventists, nor ever have been. We only hope that God’s precious

children who have learned obedience to the Ten Commandments will not

be discouraged by all the burdensome rules, regulations, and just

plain nonsense that Ellen has added to the Gospel of Christ. Mrs.

White has no authority except that given to her by the Adventist

church. God will not be angry if you disobey her, He commanded us to

keep the Sabbath holy – not Mrs. White. “

“I am not a Seventh Day Adventist (and never have been), a natural
Jew,

or a Catholic. I am simply the least of Christ’s brethren who love

Him and keep His Commandments.



http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/1100250/did-she-really-say-that

OR:

Here is their latest statement:

“ARE WE ADVENTISTS? NO! THEN WHO ARE WE?”



“My husband and I have never been members of the Seventh Day Adventist
Church. (However, we believe that Jesus is coming again!) We do not
belong to

any denomination –nor do we want to organize one.”



“We have absolutely no agenda except to give our lives to the Lord and
serve His people. Anyone who trusts in Jesus as their saviour and
obeys Him as their Lord is our brother or sister.”



“I had belonged to the denominational church system for many years;
worshipped on Sunday; experienced supernatural gifts; then, two
questions radically changed my life …”



“1. Donna, do you really want to know the truth? (I thought “Yes, of
course, I want to know the truth. It would be foolish to believe a
lie.”)”



“2. Donna, will you obey the truth –no matter what the cost? My
answer was a whole-hearted “Yes!”



“I started to put everything to the test –even my supernatural

spiritual experiences. I can still remember praying to God

“You have said in your word: ‘prove all things; hold fast that

which is good’; so please don’t be offended if I test this

spiritual manifestation. I want to stand with you Father and

your truth; but I don’t want anything from Satan. I soon

discovered that I was deceived about many things.”



“I had been in the church system for forty years; but

couldn’t even recite The Ten Commandments! My help

came from the man who became my husband. He

encouraged me to take a neutral attitude about

the subject at hand; and then, prayerfully search the

scriptures for the right answer.”



“When I recognized an error, I would never delay choosing

the side of truth. I would ask God for forgiveness, and

when possible, would renounce my former belief before

others that I had previously influenced with my error.”



“My husband and I came to learn about the seventh day Sabbath

from personal Bible Study. Our writing is based upon that

study. “



“God bless… Donna Kupp”



“The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity

www.freetruth.info”

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/1125272/are-we-adventists-no-then-who-are-we

Over the years he has gained many critics and skeptics of thier
‘teachings’.

Examples:

Answer to Harold Kupp on the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers Holy Trinity
and Modern Arians Part 2

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/debate5.htm

Old Testament Proofs of the Trinity

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a111.htm



Email conversation with Harold Kupp

http://sites.google.com/site/christiansoldier123/email-conversation-with-harold-kupp

Donna Kupp heresy 3 – work for your salvation by keeping the law

http://alt.nntp2http.com/bible/prophecy/2010/06/e7f2c3536c084a52b8521bde1306f225.html

PIRATES OF THE SOUL

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/free.christians/browse_thread/thread/111d90a90f42dd17

Harold and Donna Kupp the duo from hell

Jan 17 2010, 5:24 am

vince garcia

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.christian.episcopal/msg/dd57532f5d547bb3



Donna Kupp the woman in the iron cage of deception

vince garcia

Oct 14 2010, 3:22 pm

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.christian.presbyterian/msg/d3763916145bc50b

Their most recent postings can be found here:

http://www.keepandshare.com/visit/visit_page.php?i=630302

Just how did I discover about them? I was researching about the issues
and debate between Theonomist Sabbath keepers and we Sunday keepers.
What I discovered was their various posts and teachings from various
forums.

As you browse my blog posts you will notice I have written my own
responses to their various forum posts. I have done so because I feel
they are so far outside of Orthodox Christianity that they are little
more than a pair of false teachers.
vince garcia
2012-05-25 00:09:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@satx.rr.com
found on internet
http://acriticalchristian1971.wordpress.com/my-reseach-on-harold-and-donna-kupp/
yup--that is the stuff they believe. And as we see, it is necessaary to
pervert scriptuire and flat out lie about Christian hictory to make
their case.
Donna Kupp
2012-05-25 19:05:45 UTC
Permalink
Donna Kupp
View profile
More options May 24, 2:16 pm
EXTRA! EXTRA! READ ALL ABOUT IT!

Why listen to rumors? We invite you to our free journal, website and
moderated forum:

Forum:

http://groups.google.com/group/Freetruth?hl=en,

Journal:

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0

Website:

The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info
vince garcia
2012-05-25 19:12:09 UTC
Permalink
s we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other
gospel unto you than that ye have received, LET HIM BE ACCURSED.

--Apostle paul



John 1:1
Donna Kupp translation
"In the beginning was Jesus
and Jesus was with THE RULER,
and Jesus was Ruler.
_______________________________________________________________________


John 1:1 CJB
Complete Jewish Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 ESV
English Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 HNV
Hebrew Names Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 KJV
King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 ASV
American Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 BBE
Bible in Basic English
From the first he was the Word, and the Word was in relation with God
and was God.


John 1:1 CEB
Common English Bible
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was
God.


John 1:1 RHE
Douay-Rheims
In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word
was God.

John 1:1 GW
GOD'S WORD Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and
the Word was God.

John 1:1 GNT
Good News Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and
the Word was God.


John 1:1 CSB
Holman Christian Standard
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 LEB
Lexham English Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.

New American Standard
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 NCV
New Century Version
In the beginning there was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 NIRV
New International Reader's Version
In the beginning, the Word was already there. The Word was with God, and
the Word was God.


John 1:1 NIV
New International Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 NKJV
New King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 NLT
New Living Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed. He was with God, and he was
God.


John 1:1 NRS
New Revised Standard
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.

John 1:1 NWT
New World Translation (Jehovah's Witnesses)
1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the
Word was a god.

John 1:1 RSV
Revised Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.

John 1:1 DT
The Darby Translation
In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 MSG
The Message
The Word was first, the Word present to God, God present to the Word.
The Word was God,


John 1:1 WBT
The Webster Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 TMB
Third Millennium Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 TNIV
Today's New International Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 WNT
Weymouth New Testament
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 WEB
World English Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God.


John 1:1 WYC
Wycliffe
In the beginning was the word, and the word was at God, and God was the
word. [In the beginning was the word, that is, God's Son, and the word
was at God, and God was the word.]


John 1:1 YLT
Young's Literal Translation
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God;




Well...this post shows an example of what Donna and Harold Kupp find it
necessary to do in order to promote THEIR version of Christ and the
Gospel: Rewrite one of the most important verses of scripture, and
pervert it into a ridiculous statement of BS ...for certainly every
Bible that dares render the greek (correctly) as "The word was God" MUST
be wrong.

Apparently, only Harold and Donna Kupp know how to translate scripture
correctly.

Perhaps they claim the anointing and authority of Joseph Smith as well?

As wrong as they are on their 'translation' here is as wrong as they are
on EVERY POINT OF DOCTRINE THEY HAVE.


But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his
subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is
in Christ.
For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS, whom we have not
preached, or if ye receive ANOTHER SPIRIT, which ye have not received,
or ANOTHER GOSPEL, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with
him.

--Apostle paul


Donna Kupp meets all 3 criteria
vince garcia
2012-05-25 19:12:17 UTC
Permalink
‎~ Counterfeit Christianity and Human Secularism allow each person to
have their personal truth.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other
gospel unto you than that ye have received, LET HIM BE ACCURSED.

--Apostle paul
There is no record of the co-equal, co-eternal, three-in-one God
being taught by a single one of the early church fathers. It
was not a part of Christian teaching until it was formulated by the
Second Ecumenical Council at Constantinople in 381.A.D.
--Donna Kupp


NO RECORD BY A "SINGLE ONE" OF THE CHURCH FATHERS???


We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that
he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and
the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness,
saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the
unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are
ignorant of the mystery which lies therein.

CHURCH FATHER Justin Martyr around 160 AD


For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to
the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their
disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty . . . and in one
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in
the Holy Spirit

CHURCH FATHER Irenaeus, before 200 AD

And at the same time the mystery of the oikonomia is safeguarded, for
the unity is distributed in a TRINITY. Placed in order, the three are
the Father, Son, and Spirit. They are three, however, not in condition,
but in degree; not in being, but in form; not in power, but in kind; of
one being, however, and one condition and one power, because he is one
God of whom degrees and forms and kinds are taken into account in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"

CHURCH FATHER Tertullian "Against Praxeas" early 200s AD

The Father's Word, therefore, knowing the economy and the will of the
Father, to wit, that the Father seeks to be worshipped in none other way
than this, gave this charge to the disciples after he rose from the
dead: "Go ye and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the
Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (Matt 28:19) And by this
he showed that whosoever omitted any one of these, failed in glorifying
God perfectly. For it is through THE TRINITY that the Father is
glorified. For the Father willed, the Son did and the Spirit manifested.

CHURCH FATHER Hippolytus of Rome 220 AD

There is one God.... There is a perfect Trinity, in glory and eternity
and sovereignty, neither divided nor estranged. Wherefore there is
nothing either created or in servitude in the Trinity; nor anything
super-induced, as if at some former period it was non-existent, and at
some later period it was introduced. And thus neither was the Son ever
wanting to the Father, nor the Spirit to the Son; but without variation
and without change, the same Trinity abides ever.

CHURCH FATHER Gregory Thaumaturgus 265 AD


For Scripture as much announces Christ AS ALSO GOD, as it announces God
himself as man. It has as much described Jesus Christ to be man, as
moreover it has also described Christ the Lord to be God. Because it
does not set forth him to be the Son of God only, but also the son of
man; nor does it only say, the son of man, but it has also been
accustomed to speak of him as the Son of God. So that being of both, he
is both, lest if he should be one only, he could not be the other. For
as nature itself has prescribed that he must be believed to be a man who
is of man, so the same nature prescribes also that he must be believed
to be God who is of God. . . . Let them, therefore, who read that Jesus
Christ the son of man is man, read also that this same Jesus is called
also God and the Son of God"

Novatian, Treatise on the Trinity 11 235 AD

And now the capstone to Kupp's historial and TEXTUAL illiteracy:

The Lord says: 'I and the Father are one.' And again of the Father and
Son and the Holy Spirit it is written: 'And these three are one'.
Cyprian --Treatise 1 on the unity of the Catholic Church, chapter 6,
early 3rd century, PROVING THE LEGITIMACY OF THE COMMA JOHANNEUM KUPP
(and other historical illiterates) SAY IS A FRAUD.


The purpose of this post is to show the actual truth about how ignorant
and unlearned Donna Kupp actually is, despite trying to pretend she is
some sort of legitimate historian on Chritianity.

Anyone who make THIS sort of claim...
There is no record of the co-equal, co-eternal, three-in-one God
being taught by a single one of the early church fathers. It
was not a part of Christian teaching until it was formulated by the
Second Ecumenical Council at Constantinople in 381.A.D.
...Has no business even giving an opinion on Christian history, let
alone teaching the Bible.

As wrong as she is about THIS, is as wrong as she is on every point of
theology she holds

As is always the case with heretics and cultists, the god of these
people must rely on his representatives speaking lie after lie in an
attemopt to deceive the sheep into following the false teacher and false
god behind the teacher.


But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his
subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is
in Christ.
For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS, whom we have not
preached, or if ye receive ANOTHER SPIRIT, which ye have not received,
or ANOTHER GOSPEL, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with
him.

--Apostle paul


Donna Kupp meets all 3 criteria
vince garcia
2012-05-25 19:16:50 UTC
Permalink
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other
gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

--Apostle paul
A thousand may pray until their knees are bloody, but if they are not
keeping His Commandments, God says their prayer is an abomination to
Him. Yet the prayers of one one man who abides in Him can change the
"The effectual fervent prayer of a RIGHTEOUS man availeth much."
James 5:16 KJV
“Little children, let no one deceive you. He who DOES RIGHT is
RIGHTEOUS.” 1 John 3:7 RSV
Sounds good, doesn't it? SOUNDS like something a believer in Christ
might really say.

But what is the truth behind what Donna Kupp teaches and believes?

How can we know if this woman is of God or actually a false teacher when
she speaks?

Paul gives us the answer:

2 cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve
through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the
simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS, whom we have not
preached, or if ye receive ANOTHER SPIRIT, which ye have not received,
or ANOTHER GOSPEL, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with
him.

2 cor 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming
themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of
light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed
as the MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS; whose end shall be according to their
works.

Donna Kupp, for those who do not know, is a woman preaching a false
gospel with a false Christ that denies virtually every possible
essential of the Christian faith.

Note here paul's words about false teachers: they will actually be
"MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS"!!!!! Not antinomians, teaching lawlessness
and freedom to sin, but MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, teaching an
apparently good-sounding Gospel that is actually ANOTHER GOSPEL about
ANOTHER JESUS!

Let us test Donna Kupp's own words against the doctrines of
the New Testament and the Christian church, and see if we can determine
whether she is a servant of God, or actually a minister of Satan!

1. First, Paul warns that a minister of Satan will teach "ANOTHER
JESUS."

Is Donna Kupp's Jesus YOUR Jesus? Is her Jesus the Jesus of
Scripture?

While Donna Kupp just made a number of statements sound like something a
real Christian might make, we cannot make a judgment whether she is or
is not a true Christian based only on what she just posted here. We must
determine if she really teaches the same Jesus REAL Christians follow by
looking at statements she, herself, has made about Christ in the past,
that she may not throw out on a regular basis, because she knows it
reveals what she REALLY thinks about Christ.

So what does she actually say about the Jesus she follows, and
supposedly places faith in?

This...
"In the beginning was Jesus
and Jesus was with THE RULER,
and Jesus was Ruler.
The same was in the beginning with THE RULER."
John was teaching that Jesus was our Ruler (our theos) and that
Jesus was with the Father from the very beginning of creation.
(Not that Jesus was one third of some mysterious and mind-
boggling "Trinity" that no one had ever heard of.)
We can stop right there. Donna Kupp, denying the deity of Christ,
rewrites the Gospel of John in a manner that affirms that denial, so we
can either change all our Bibles to her new trenslation that "proves"
Jesus is NOT fully God, but some other sort of created lesser being, or
we can allow the sacred words of the apostle John to stand AS WRITTEN!

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the WORD
WAS GOD.

So we see her Jesus is ANOTHER JESUS that orthodox Protestants and
Evangelicals (and Catholics) DO NOT believe in.

For US, Jesus is God in flesh, fully God and fully man, and 2nd Person
of the Trinity she goes on to mock and deny.


2. Next, Paul warns that a minister of Satan will teach or operate under
a "DIFFERENT SPIRIT".

Does Donna Kupp teach and receive anoining by the same Holy Spirit that
REAL Christians follow?

Judge for yourself by her own words.
The concept that the Holy Spirit is God is based on a single verse in
Acts (5:3) where it says that Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit - and
later it says that he lied to God.
To conclude that the Holy Spirit is God on the basis of those verses is
merely an interpretation which adds to what is actually written. Since
the Spirit is the means of communciation between God and man, if you
lie to the Spirit you are in effect lying to God. Are there any verses
which actually say that the Holy Spirit is God?
Not one!
Jesus did not teach the Trinity, the apostles did not teach it, and it
was not taught by church leaders for three hundred years after the
death of Christ.
All REAL Christians believe not only in the deity of Christ, but also
the Godhood of the Holy Spirit. As we see from her own words, Donna
Kupp denies those two essentials of the faith, and proclaims the Holy
Spirit is only some nebulous "means of communication between God and
man"

So now we see she has fulfilled the SECOND warning of Paul--she has
A DIFFERENT SPIRIT than REAL Christians do.

By the way, her LIES about the history of the Trinity are instantly
refutable:

The deity of Christ was EXPLICITLY taught by Ignatius in the early 2nd
century

"To the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . chosen through true suffering by
the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God"
"FOR OUR GOD, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God�s
plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit"

Letter to the Ephesians 1 110 AD
There is no record of the co-equal, co-eternal, three-in-one God
being taught by a single one of the early church fathers. It
was not a part of Christian teaching until it was formulated by the
Second Ecumenical Council at Constantinople in 381.A.D.
"No record"?


For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to
the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their
disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty . . . and in one
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in
the Holy Spirit

Irenaeus, before 200 AD

And at the same time the mystery of the oikonomia is safeguarded, for
the unity is distributed in a TRINITY. Placed in order, the three are
the Father, Son, and Spirit. They are three, however, not in condition,
but in degree; not in being, but in form; not in power, but in kind; of
one being, however, and one condition and one power, because he is one
God of whom degrees and forms and kinds are taken into account in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"

Tertullian "Against Praxeas" early 200s AD

For Scripture as much announces Christ AS ALSO GOD, as it announces God
himself as man. It has as much described Jesus Christ to be man, as
moreover it has also described Christ the Lord to be God. Because it
does not set forth him to be the Son of God only, but also the son of
man; nor does it only say, the son of man, but it has also been
accustomed to speak of him as the Son of God. So that being of both, he
is both, lest if he should be one only, he could not be the other. For
as nature itself has prescribed that he must be believed to be a man who
is of man, so the same nature prescribes also that he must be believed
to be God who is of God. . . . Let them, therefore, who read that Jesus
Christ the son of man is man, read also that this same Jesus is called
also God and the Son of God"

Novatian, Treatise on the Trinity 11 235 AD

And now the capstone to Kupp's historial and TEXTUAL illiteracy:

The Lord says: 'I and the Father are one.' And again of the Father and
Son and the Holy Spirit it is written: 'And these three are one'.
Cyprian --Treatise 1 on the unity of the Catholic Church, chapter 6,
early 3rd century, PROVING THE LEGITIMACY OF THE COMMA JOHANNEUM KUPP
(and other historical illiterates) SAY IS A FRAUD.


3. The minister of Satan will also teach "ANOTHER GOSPEL."

Does Donna Kupp uphold the CHRISTIAN gospel? We've already seen she
denies and perverts the nature of Jesus Himself and the precious Holy
Spirit. But what is her actual gospel message? She talks about
obedience, and making Jesus Lord...but what does she really believe
about sin, justification, and sanctification? Does she ever lay out her
beliefs in clear language so the body of Christ can see and judge
whether she is or is not a fellow believer?

Yes!
To be saved is the first step in the process of salvation. Those who
are saved do not have eternal life -
Did you get that? THOSE WHO ARE SAVED ___DO NOT___HAVE ETERNAL LIFE!!!

LET'S CONTRAST THAT WITH SCRIPTURE:

jn 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, HATH eternal life;
and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name
of the Son of God; that YE MAY KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that
ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
"If one who is born of God has truly repented of committing sin
(chosen to cease from sin) and then deliberately commits sin he has
despised the Holy Spirit, just as the OT the Israelites despised the
Law of God. It is blasphemy!"
"When we are converted all past sins are forgiven. After a person is
born-again, only sins of ignorance are forgiven. If a person sins
with knowledge and intent after that time, they have blasphemed
the Holy Spirit and there is no more sacrifice for sin. See Hebrews
6:1-8; Hebrews 10:26-31."
LET'S CONTRAST THAT WITH SCRIPTURE:

Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves
are ALSO FOUND SINNERS, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God
forbid.

Apparently, paul understood that even those justified in Christ STILL
SINNED!

Are we sure? Well, let's again test the doctrine of donna kupp by Paul's
own words, written in the last months of his life:

1 tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation,
that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I AM
CHIEF.

Wait a minute--I thought Donna said any Christian who willingly commits
even ONE SIN is eternally damned!

Apparently, paul did not realize this when he acknowledged he was the
WORST of sinners in 67 AD when he wrote this, 30+ years after finding
Christ! Thus, he must have been guilty of blaspheming the spirit
according to false teachers harold and donna kupp

What else did Paul have to say about whether Christians do or do not
commit sin in romans 7?

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:
for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I
find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: BUT THE EVIL WHICH I WOULD NOT,
____THAT I DO___.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin
that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with
me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my
mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my
members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this
death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I
myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Does THAT sound like a man who has reached the state of sinless
perfection like Donna Kupp, who claims any sin she commits is 100%
accidental and unintentional??????

And this is her ultimate blasphemy regarding the blood of Christ...
Blood of Christ covers: 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light,
as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the
blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (Only sins
of ignorance)
Notice how donna kupp added the words "Only sins of ignorance" to
pervert John's words? Just as she did with the powerful passage in John
1:1, she rejects the message and inserts her own heretical words flat
out CONTRADICTING what was actually written! John says Christ's blood
cleanses us from ALL sin; Donna adds words to change it to all
UNINTENTIONAL sins, making the blood of Christ LIMITED in its ability to
atone for sin.

Kupp also has missed what Jesus said about how imperfect His followers
will always be:

Luke 4:4 And FORGIVE US OUR SINS; for we also forgive every one that is
indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from
evil.

Meanwhile, THIS is God's true message of salvation:

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become
the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

And while Donna Kupp blasphemes the gospel by claiming we keep--and
actually earn--our salvation through keeping the 10 commandments
perfectly, here is what the SCRIPTURE says about how we stay in right
standing security with God:

1 peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a
lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not
away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 WHO ARE KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD __THROUGH FAITH__ UNTO SALVATION
ready to be revealed in the last time.

So now we see her "gospel" IS NOT the gospel of the New testament. It is
a false gospel that...

A. Requires Bible verses to be rewritten in a heretical manner.
B. Requires adding a clarification to Scripture that TOTALLY overturns
what the Scripture actually SAYS.
C. Must deny the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit.
D. Requires remaining in a state of salvation by keeping the 10
commandments PERFECTLY, or else the person is now damned without
possibility of repentance.
E. Blasphemes and limits the atoning power of Christ's blood to
"Only sins of ignorance."


4. As we noted, Paul says the MINISTER OF SATAN will actually appear to
be a MINISTER OF RIGHTEOUSNESS! That is what makes them so deceptive.
They are serpents in the guise of sheep, preaching righteous living and
'keeping God's holy law' while in their hearts is satan himself, drawing
people away from TRUE righteousness, to a perverted notion of it based
on keeping commandments!

Take a look at Donna Kupp's deceptive posts, including this one. Every
one touts the keeping of biblical commandments, threatens people with
damnation for failing to keep biblical commandments, and threatenes them
with damnation if anyone should ever--EVEN ONE TIME--willingly BREAK a
biblical commandment.

So Kupp APPEARS to be preaching the righteousness of 'keeping God's holy
commandments'...yet she does it in a way that is an UTTER PERVERSION of
the gospel of grace, and comes right from the mouth of satan speaking
good things, and making her LOOK like a minister of righetousness.

So, summing it up, Paul says that a minister of satan will...

Preach another Jesus...
Preach under another spirit...
Preach a different gospel...
While appearing to be a minister of righteousness while doing so!

I believe Donna Kupp meets ALL FOUR CRITERIA.

Based on the totality of her teachings, I see no conclusion other than
that the "Jesus" she follows is a demon spirit, and the "Yahweh" she
speaks for is actually SATAN.


I am dead to the law by the crucified body of Christ. Are you?
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